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Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test
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Just saw this over on another tri forum website; http://www.triathlonmania.it/...ontrollo-antidoping/ (use google translate for those who don't speak Italian)


It appears that a AG guy in the M40-44, Maurizio Carta, was a former pro cyclist who served a previous ban for doping and refused to be tested for Kona. Not sure if he made it all the way to Kona before they didn't allow him to start on raceday, or if he refused testing in the period between his qualifying race and Kona (which is in-competition period) and didn't travel. Either way, I haven't seen anything formal from WTC on this. Since he refused a in-competition test, coupled with his previous ban, this would mean he should get a lifetime ban? Or since there's nothing formal from WTC, does he just continue to race and try to qualify for Kona 2017?


Seems like there's been a few AGer's that didn't toe the line in Kona this year for similar offenses, but that's only rumor at the moment. Would be interesting if any STer's have any insight.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [kennykill] [ In reply to ]
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ST'er Cam Loos mentioned a friend of his witnessed two AG'ers refuse to a drug test at registration.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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ST'er Cam Loos mentioned a friend of his witnessed two AG'ers refuse to a drug test at registration.

Did they say why they refused (it's pretty obvious) or what excuse they provided?


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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Yikes, that looks bad for sure. As far as I understand it they refused an in-competition test, which breaks the agreement which they signed when they accepted the Kona slot, therefore they would not be allowed to race and would be looking at a 2 year ban.

This is under the assumption that AGer's, and not just professional athletes, can be banned?
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [kennykill] [ In reply to ]
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kennykill wrote:
Yikes, that looks bad for sure. As far as I understand it they refused an in-competition test, which breaks the agreement which they signed when they accepted the Kona slot, therefore they would not be allowed to race and would be looking at a 2 year ban.

This is under the assumption that AGer's, and not just professional athletes, can be banned?

Julie Miller was an AGer.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [kennykill] [ In reply to ]
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Refusing an in-competition or out-of-competition test carries the same penalty as a doping violation - currently a 4 year suspension.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [kennykill] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure it's a 4 year ban.

This was mentioned in the Sam gyde thread and I think by the way one post was worded that it may have left some people thinking that it was SGY who refused.

That's not the case, Sam raced and came 3Rd, another Ster came first... I think they were both tested.

Basically if you race kona and pick up your package be prepared to be tested. I don't think it's entirely targeted to fast guys either, iirc a few years ago there was a thread about a legacy guy getting tested.

Maurice

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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Once you sign your entry form you have consented to in, and out of, competition testing. A number of age groupers were tested in the weeks leading up to the race as well, so it is more than just at registration.

Its great to hear this is happening ... by not accepting to be tested they are 100% hiding something.

Adios Cheaters!

We still have more work to do in this area but every little bit helps.

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Last edited by: Dave Latourette: Oct 13, 16 14:06
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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For sure,

That is the letter of the law, or the agreement. And in the U.S. They appear to be targeting a few fast guys, at the event and before.

I just don't think they have the same cooperation with other countries in regards to OOC testing pre event, IE my bet is that even if they had the greatest suspicion of this guy that they didn't test him OOC in Italy.

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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I really doubt ITU/WADA is going to bear the expense of travelling to test AGers OOC. Testing people at reg. is a lot easier since the testing folks need to be there for the event anyway.


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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
I really doubt ITU/WADA is going to bear the expense of travelling to test AGers OOC. Testing people at reg. is a lot easier since the testing folks need to be there for the event anyway.

Tell that to Kevin Moats.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
I really doubt ITU/WADA is going to bear the expense of travelling to test AGers OOC. Testing people at reg. is a lot easier since the testing folks need to be there for the event anyway.

The country specific anti doping agencies work together. If a US pro cyclist or triathlete is living and competing in say, France, USADA might contact the French version of USADA to request that athlete be tested and vice versa. If you look at the USADA testing database you'll see mention that this only includes testing done by USADA. I've seen social media posts from athletes who mentioned that they got tested two days in a row by at the request of different agencies. it might have been the same testers even, but one was at the behest of maybe USADA and the other by WADA, etc.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
I really doubt ITU/WADA is going to bear the expense of travelling to test AGers OOC. Testing people at reg. is a lot easier since the testing folks need to be there for the event anyway.


Tell that to Kevin Moats.

And there are other examples in category cycling. It's targeted. If someone calls the tip line with specific, credible information it appears USADA will jump right on a plane.

If it were up to me I'd also throw in 1-2 completely random OOC tests. Just to make dopers sweat a little at night.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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The issue is if WTC has that level of cooperation with others... As a private company.

For sure they do with USADA as they likely give them 200-300k$ per year.

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [kennykill] [ In reply to ]
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I vote they take a urine sample from everyone right after they weigh you.

Then, determine which athletes to test via lottery. The threat of knowing your urine is going to be collected no matter what may be a good deterrent.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
I vote they take a urine sample from everyone right after they weigh you.

Then, determine which athletes to test via lottery. The threat of knowing your urine is going to be collected no matter what may be a good deterrent.

I think the anti-doping rules don't allow that. If they take a sample, it must be tested.

Formerly DrD
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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A large number of KQ age groupers (male and female) have been tested leading into the IM World Championship the last couple of years.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Broken Leg Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for this?

Broken Leg Guy wrote:
turningscrews wrote:
I vote they take a urine sample from everyone right after they weigh you.

Then, determine which athletes to test via lottery. The threat of knowing your urine is going to be collected no matter what may be a good deterrent.

I think the anti-doping rules don't allow that. If they take a sample, it must be tested.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [lalonauta] [ In reply to ]
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Chain of command and process.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
I've seen social media posts from athletes who mentioned that they got tested two days in a row by at the request of different agencies. it might have been the same testers even, but one was at the behest of maybe USADA and the other by WADA, etc.

In one of the more recent (couple years old?) Lance Armstrong documentaries about his comeback: He was in the process of getting tested by one agency and another one arrived before he finished the first! I think he also got tested by a third different agency the day before as well.

They should really communicate between themselves better or set up some sort of online database where they can all see who was tested when or something like that.

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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [lalonauta] [ In reply to ]
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lalonauta wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for this?

Broken Leg Guy wrote:
turningscrews wrote:
I vote they take a urine sample from everyone right after they weigh you.

Then, determine which athletes to test via lottery. The threat of knowing your urine is going to be collected no matter what may be a good deterrent.

I think the anti-doping rules don't allow that. If they take a sample, it must be tested.

Don't know the specifics. Recall it being brought up in a previous doping thread.

Formerly DrD
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]
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I would like to see every AG in the top ten have to submit a test. Add a choice on the entry form, Do you want to qualify for Kona? If yes, You are required to test pre/post race. Add 50 bucks to the entry fee for those that do, at $600+ does it really matter? Will it get rid of all of it? No, but I think it would help.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [Broken Leg Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Broken Leg Guy wrote:

Don't know the specifics. Recall it being brought up in a previous doping thread.

It's a little ambiguous, but the WADA code sounds like you can just store the samples without testing:

"Samples shall be analyzed to detect Prohibited Substances and ProhibitedMethods identified on the Prohibited List and other substances as may be directed by WADA pursuant to Article 4.5, or to assist an Anti-Doping Organization in profiling relevant parameters in an Athlete’s urine, blood or other matrix, including DNA or genomic profiling, or for any other legitimate anti-doping purpose. Samples may be collected and stored for future analysis. "


That kind of sounds like you can collect and store with no intermediate analysis.

But that's just the top-level code. It could be that lower agencies (e.g. USADA) have a must-analyze policy.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [7ofClubs] [ In reply to ]
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7ofClubs wrote:
I would like to see every AG in the top ten have to submit a test. Add a choice on the entry form, Do you want to qualify for Kona? If yes, You are required to test pre/post race. Add 50 bucks to the entry fee for those that do, at $600+ does it really matter? Will it get rid of all of it? No, but I think it would help.

I like a little randomness and uncertainty in every stage. If you make things predictable, then you set a nice easy goalpost to defeat the system.

For example maybe one year they do most of the testing upon registration onsite. Then the next year they use all their money to do random out-of-competition testing, showing up at the doors of some qualifiers a few weeks prior to Kona.
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Re: Kona Age Grouper Refused Anti-Doping Test [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
I vote they take a urine sample from everyone right after they weigh you.

Then, determine which athletes to test via lottery. The threat of knowing your urine is going to be collected no matter what may be a good deterrent.


The guys that I know, that were tested in Kona this year tell me they took blood not urine. I do like your idea (if it's implementable/legal) as it will deter most dopers

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Last edited by: robgray: Oct 14, 16 8:09
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