the trick is that 10 yr olds come in all sizes. I'm going to put my son on a road bike this spring, he is 11 but 5' tall, so to me, normal bike fitting rules apply. I'll probably go with a used compact frame in size S (like a Giant or something for a couple hundred bucks) and components I have laying around. I would prefer to fit him on a frame that uses 700c wheels so I can again use what is on hand. But then again, if I knew about 24" bikes I might go that route . . . probably not though . . .

I bet you could find a heck of a deal on a used giant OCR on ebay that would fit someone around 5' tall, give or take a few inches

I remember seeing a Javelin Bikes ad in one of the Tri mags about a month or two ago. I'm pretty sure it was Javelin. They were advertising a kid's size compact road bike with 24" wheels. It might be what your friend is looking for.

Their website has been "under construction" for months and months. www.javbike.com Their is no mention of this "little" bike on their website. It's better just to call them I think.

Javelin Bicycles & Javelin Bike Frames

1203 N. Pine :: North Little Rock, AR 72114
Phone: 501-372-5741 Fax: 501-376-1035
Toll Free: 1-800-814-0133

Hope this helps.

Argon 18 makes a couple of nice kids road bikes. I don't remember the specific web address at the moment, but it isn't nothing a nice Yahoo search can't take care of.

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I don't work here, I just live here

I found the ad in the October 2003 issue of Triathlete Magazine (black and white Mark Allen cover). It's on page 85. It's got 650c wheels and a 24" standover height. Not 24" wheels as I thought earlier.


The Good Gopha is correct. Check out the R2 650c and the D2 24 at www.argon18bike.com

Scott Molina shared with me his frustration over the slim selection road bikes for his 10 year old son, Miguel. Scott said it will be a while before Miguel is able to straddle his old QR. Indurain's namesake can't wait this long!

Even if there were more choices, how many parents are going to fork out good money for a bike that will be outgrown in a year?

In researching pediatric growth statistics I found out that the average (50th percentile) 10 year old boy grows from 138.5 cm to 163.5 cm in four years. (Girls grow from 138 to 160.5 in the same period.)
About a third of this growth (7-8 cm) is in the spine.
Most of it is in the legs.

I came up with a TitanFlex design using 24" wheels that has a standover height of 23" and a 94.5 cm wheelbase (equivalent to a conventional 48-50 cm frame). The boom telescopes 6 cm and a lifetime stem exchange program will accommodate torso growth. A standard seatpost will take care of the considerable leg growth. The wheelbase will be suitable for a typical 5'3" rider while providing more stability for a smaller/less skilled pilot.

The idea is to provide a quality road bike that will deliver 3 to 4 years of service and a smooth skill set transition to adult-sized frames.

The base model will be priced at $999. Crankarms will be available in 150 to 165 mm lengths. There will be a tricked-out model for the "permanently small" population, complete with Shimano's new small-hand STI levers, Velocity Ureil wheels, carbon fork, Syntace SLS bars, etc.

They will be available early next year. Feel free to contact me off-forum if you'd like more details.

Cheers,

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Even more prevalent than awful carbon fiber at Interbike this year were brilliant kids road bikes in 20" and 24".

Pinarello and Colnago were there, if your friend never goes to Walmart ever. If your friend goes to Target for bargains and his local Independent Bicycle Dealer for quality, check out the Felt kids road bikes. Better still, Orbea does a 24" bike that could alter the future for about $800.

Jeferson

Just out of curiosity, if you're telescoping the boom (backwards) and extending the stem (forwards) to deal with a growing kid, but the cranks & wheels stay in the same place, doesn't that radically effect the geometry and handling of the bike? It seems as if the seat angle would be constantly shrinking and the amount of stem you could use to extend the cockpit would run out of "ideal handling" range pretty quickly - or am I missing something here?

Please don't take this as trashing your design, as I'm a real fan of your product - especially after the thread we had here a while ago with happy TitanFlex owners just coming out of the woodwork. I'm just trying to understand how this design would allow for 25-odd cm of growth in a kid.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

"a little too snooty for the Wal-Mart route."

That's a shame. I/Santa just got my boy a freestyleisc bike from Walmart. $65 and I bet he will have just as much fun as any kid on a super fancy jober.

Kids need to goof off and brake things. Snooty bikes prevent that.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

several ways to go here in widely available stuff reasonably priced:

1. chuck's bikes imports some really nice little 24 inchers, sold as a frame and a complete bike. around 6 bills for the whole deal. note: this "24" is different than the 24 you see in usa lbs's. you gotta get the tires from chuck.

2. harriscyclery.com has the only decent 24 in road tires for usa 24 in rims. " vee rubber" 1 1/8 size. light and fast. with these you can convert any 24 inch mt bike sold in the usa LBS's. i put on drop bars and suntour 7 spd barcons to my 8 y/'s little GT mt bike with a campy racing triple we had laying around and it is nice and fast. fwiw, this year i am gonna put road brakes on that little mt bike with some 26 ( 650) wheels and it will have served 3 lives.

3. super small frames are available from surly (42) and in 04 giant ( XS ) among others. the little new xs giants are pretty nice but steel is better for kids becuz of the ride - super small large dia alu frames are harsh and that is that. my little girl was on a 42 surly ( 700c) built with parts bin stuff at age 11 and she is runty. for a 10 y/o boy i would go for a small 700c bike, myself.

4. go to a local club or velodrome or a shop that is affiliated with same. ask for deals there on used stuff as little racers move up.

5 dunno about the argon, colnago, etc. not avail readily 'round hyar.

misc. watch the spec on kids bikes. lots of crap on there many times. a parts bin build on a frame may well be far better and cheaper. we built that surly for less than 5 bills and it has super record, chorus, ultegra, etc from the parts box.

top mount brake levers are a MUST, IMHO for kids. don't even think about it, just get them.

shimano does make a ulterga STI lever shimmed down to a small hand size. kids dig STI.

Mr. Pluto, thanks for livening up this thread.
Excuse me for mushing "average" and "50th percentile." As you rightly point out, they aren't statistical equivalents. My point is that kids grow quickly and frustrate their parents' ability to provide them with shoes, clothes, etc. during this period.

"One of the posts questioned the impact of moving the sadle backwards and its implications on biomechanics, I completely agree."

What ARE the biomechanical implications of moving the saddle back? It seems that adult seat tube angles safely range from 72 to 80+ degrees.

"It also amazes me that new designs sometimes address a specific design problem, ignoring the shortcoming of the design on other dimensions related to the overall problem of moving efficiently, safely and quickly being able to have maximum control and avoiding overuse injuries."

It amazes me that you know so much about my new design to be able to draw this conclusion. How do you know that I have ignored the overall problem?

When a small kid can't safely straddle a bike I guess you could tell them they are aren't ready to ride like their parents. My design simply gives parents another choice...an opportunity to introduce their children to the sport they love.

I'm glad to hear that you would pursue a different route in exposing your children to this sport. I had a similar experience in earning my status as a young cyclist.

Cheers,

---

Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Yeah, wouldn't it be cool to see your neighbor's 10-year old "ghost riding" his new P3 down the street!

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Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

My daughter is 12 and has expressed a strong desire to do the Meek & Mighty Tri @ St Anthony's and the mini-tri at the Mad Beach triathlon(plus she'd like to spend more time with Daddy). Since she's got a good knockaround bike to rided with friends(a Giant Sedona) this bike would be specifically for training/racing.

I've been impressed with the Giant OCR-3 at my LBS. http://www.giant-bicycles.com/...=143&model=10771

It's got a decent spec and is priced at $599. One really nice feature that they added this year are inline brake levers on the tops of the handlebar(which a previous poster had mentioned for kids). Before buying, I'm also going to take a look at the Felt offering & the Fuji for comparison.

Hope that this helps!!

DIG

I agree that it's ridiculous to go out and buy a child an expensive road bike straight off the bat.

What I did with my children is start them off on little Schwinn 16" MTB's (available for about $80). When they got a little older they got Schwinn 20" MTB's (available for bout $150). When they expressed an interest in triathlons I put slicks on the 20" MTB's. When they got bigger and better they got 24" MTB's (available for about $299) with slicks for triathlons, and when they began to win championships, they got 24" road bikes (sky's the limit).

They earned the right to have a "race bike". With almost everything at our house, they are privileges that are earned.

What some people don't realize is that the 24" bikes are not much smaller than Trek's 43cm WSD bikes and Cannondale's 40cm Feminine bikes. Look at the specifications and you'll see that they are extremely close. Those bikes also are lighter and have more readily available components, and are usually on Ebay for pretty cheap.

I don't believe that there is an age or earning-capacity requirement to your child getting something nice. I believe that if a child has shown a propensity in a sport or talent and the responsibility to care for it, and you can afford it, you should support that child's endeavors to the best of your ability. A child does not become a poseur because you buy him a nice bike... it comes from his upbringing and the values instilled upon him.

Oh... and Lance... he did have a "$999 TT frame" when he was 12 and raced in the IronKids triathlon series, where he was runner up (1983'ish) to Nick Radkewich who was on an even fancier race bike.

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

as an interesting aside to irondad's commentary - and to steer the topic awat from the hotbutton topic of parenting . . . . . .

my kid's are primarly mt bike racers, and they compete in a popular statewide series with quite a bit of youth involvement. lots of these kids have pretty dang nice mt bikes. exceedingly nice, in some cases. and, some are out there on wal-mart POS's. in mt biking this doesn't seem to be a big whit either way. cool bikes are fun, and ride one if you can - why the hell not? there is minimal vibe one way or the other. drifting further, this idea holds forth in mt biking to adults as well, and you never see a topic such as "does that fat guy really need that xtr epic ?" or " he would be better off with losing some blah blah and getting a blah hem-a-haw". oddly, a more common comment might be " hey young (big) fella, cool little bike ! ". and let the race itself sort the rest out. why is tri so different, one ( i) wonder ??

Thanks for all the comments related to my post, I enjoyed reading it. I was doing some work and suddenly got two e-mail notifications to inform me that people have replied – very clever website.

Titan flex wrote: "It amazes me that you know so much about my new design to be able to draw this conclusion. How do you know that I have ignored the overall problem? "

I agree that I know nothing about his new design. His design could be very thorough and indeed addresses a variety of requirements. My statement was a general observation. But it is unfair as it could be linked to TitanFlex. However, he did admit to use statistics incorrectly and I hope his design is not based on reading scientific papers and drawing incorrect conclusions. By the way, I think TitanFlex makes great bikes, it is just as IronDad said very well : "I agree that it's ridiculous to go out and buy a child an expensive road bike straight off the bat".



My comment about children needs clarifications. If a child is extremely talented in a sport and put in the training then in my mind, he definitely should have a nice TitanFlex bike or similar. But he should earn it first by learning to appreciate the small things in life and the meaning of hard work (i.e. hard training on cheaper stuff first). In the case of Lance, I believe he was given the bike from a local shop after he proved himself as an extremely promising young man.

"does that fat guy really need that xtr epic ". If the fat guy wants to spend his hard earned cash (or take a loan) on a bike that has advantages that he is not able to notice, then it is entirely up to him. But unless the cause of his overweight is health related, I recommend that he change his diet and train harder to earn that bike. I am not an authority on morals or education, I am only sharing my attitudes. Whilst I will never ridicule a person for that, I do think that it looks silly. In fact a guy who works with me has a Specialized Enduro pro with expensive upgrades and all the possible accessories. When we cycled together one day I noticed that he stopped chatting with me as soon as we went 100-150 meters up the hill. I realised that he is embarrassed that he is out of breath and preferred to be quiet. I thought that he should spend more time on the saddle and less reading MB magazines and gear reviews. Therefore, in my opinion he has not earned that bike. A 400$ KONA with Alivio gears would also be fine for his abilities as a rider. You do not need to be very talented to go faster in a more powerful car, but you need to be extremely fit and skilled to get the advantages of a better bike.

All of the above has nothing to do with Triathlon. It applies to guys who buy a Breitling SuperOcean 1000m for their 5 days snorkelling holiday in Eilat, a crappy Squash player who buys Titanium rocket, or weekend warrior who cruises 4 miles at a speed of 12mph in the official USPostal colours only if it is not cold.

Pluto

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Felt makes a 24" bike for kids. http://www.feltracing.com/2004_bikes/f24.html

thanks to your own self for that post, pluto.

fwiw, both my kids ride bikes which are hand me downs, and we dug in the parts bin and travelled to the backroom of the bikestore together before piecing them together out in the lab, punk rock blaring on the stereo just as God has intended. and, as some of that parts scrounging came at the expense of my persoanl ride - :) - i myslef ride a even further cobbed together old bike myself and so we are not the cigarette boat for sunfish fishing type.

and, i take a slightly different view on the young-uns regarding "earning". instead, i S-H-O-W them how much advantage there is to be had in the bling. which is to say, not much. getting whupped on with an xtr derrailleur feels remarkably similar to getting whupped on with an LX derailleur, it turns out. same with nearly any other part you care to mention. mix this lesson in with a little economics - " well, if you get the LX you already KNOW you go just as fast, and with the difference you can buy a ticket to the waterpark after the race" - and there you go, an enlightened young bike racer is born.

as for the fat guy on xtr - totally cool with me. well, not really - none-o-my-bidness, in truth. i would still say " yo, nice bike " as opposed to " you would be better of on weight watchers" figuring, if nothing else that dude already freaking knows that. " nice bike" is ALWAYS a welcome comment, tho, and i bet it make him feel a little better.