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Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training

 

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sholbk

Nov 27, 12 7:53

Post #1 of 149 (8654 views)
Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training Quote | Reply

Has anyone read...The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. Have you tried a ketogenic diet for training? What was your result?
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Livetotri

Nov 27, 12 7:58

Post #2 of 149 (8636 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My brother's on Atkins...which is basically 0 carbs. I'll email him and ask him to chime in with his thoughts.


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izzyfuld

Nov 27, 12 8:06

Post #3 of 149 (8615 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My brother is right I have done an extreme version of the Atkins diet. At my heaviest I was 273 pounds of meat. Over the course of 3 months of cutting out virtually all carbs (minus an occasional piece of something whole wheat) I lost 65 pounds. I was running about 4-5 days a week. No cycling as I was spending the year abroad and had no access to a bike. I also did the occasional weight lifting workout. I believe Atkins allows a certain amount of carbs based on your weight but i figured why not cut out all of them and burn fat for fuel? It worked great.


amagangan

Nov 27, 12 8:10

Post #4 of 149 (8606 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

sholbk wrote:
Has anyone read...The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. Have you tried a ketogenic diet for training? What was your result?

no - I've not read the book but yes I have tried ketogenic diet for endurance training. For me it works really well, but it's a diet that only works with zero cheating. If you eat any sugar it won't work. You cannot do high intensity training but you can do long slow stuff all day with very little extra fuel. I do this during my base training which also has the added benefit of making sure I don't push myself at too fast a pace. Once I start a build block of higher intensity training, I eat normally.


Devlin

Nov 27, 12 8:13

Post #5 of 149 (8600 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [amagangan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

amagangan wrote:
sholbk wrote:
Has anyone read...The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. Have you tried a ketogenic diet for training? What was your result?


no - I've not read the book but yes I have tried ketogenic diet for endurance training. For me it works really well, but it's a diet that only works with zero cheating. If you eat any sugar it won't work. You cannot do high intensity training but you can do long slow stuff all day with very little extra fuel. I do this during my base training which also has the added benefit of making sure I don't push myself at too fast a pace. Once I start a build block of higher intensity training, I eat normally.

The broscience in this post is staggering.

John


Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |


IREPathletics

Nov 27, 12 8:17

Post #6 of 149 (8592 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I did a body transformation contest. I lost 75lbs in 84 days on the Ketogenic diet on a major caloric deficit. The winnings from that contest bought my first TT bike. Training wise, I was okay at Zone 1 level work (2hr walks) or short 20-30 minute intervals where rest time matched working set time. I did not pick up Tri until after this but have tried it a few times while during normal Ironman training without success. As soon as I dropped into ketosis my training would suffer dramatically. I would get glycogen depleted too fast even at Z2 work that I was getting nothing beneficial done. I was defiantly burning some protein up too, ammonia smell = not so good. So in summary, it is a loaded question depending on your goals and reasons for looking at the ketogenic diet.

If you have any specific questions let me know I have done a lot of research on this diet


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haole

Nov 27, 12 8:21

Post #7 of 149 (8578 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

understand the difference between fit and healthy
then try to find a diet that combines both for your training
neither low carb / high fat or high carb / low fat does it
either will make you look fit(ER) from your current state but either will make you health(IER) in a long run


veganerd

Nov 27, 12 8:31

Post #8 of 149 (8562 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

its a really stupid idea. outside of having uncontrolled pediatric epilepsy, there isnt a good reason to try it.

your bones will start to demineralize which would increase your chances of stress fractures, your cholesterol will rise, you will increase the likelyhood of developing kidney stones, and you will probably be constipated and if youre a woman, say bye to your regular periods. but you will probably lose weight so i guess its all roses.

seriously, eat a healthy diet with adequate portions and ignore fad diets. they are all bullshit.

enemy of epilepsy



Burnt Toast

Nov 27, 12 9:02

Post #9 of 149 (8509 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

http://eatingacademy.com/

Give it a look and see if its something you are interested in trying.


mauricemaher

Nov 27, 12 9:54

Post #10 of 149 (8420 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Changes in fat utilization vs carb utilization usually occur as a direct result of more O2 delivery and increased mitochondrial density in the working muscle group.

I have spent (wasted) a fair amount of time trying to find some sort evidence if diet alone can affect the ratio at which fat is burned in the local muscle group.

Not saying that evidence does not exist but I haven't found it yet.

How you burn fuel is based primarily on how you train leading up to the event and the conditions on the day (pacing, heat etc).
http://www.multisportsolutions.com


songmak

Nov 27, 12 10:02

Post #11 of 149 (8386 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I found my training suffered. I would say that if you are not after peak performance, you can get through training, etc. However, when training really ramped up for me, my performance suffered as well as my overall mood. Take this with a grain of salt because I am sure there were holes in my diet detail. I have since moved back to my old standard 'healthy' diet and my performance and mood have improved.


synthetic

Nov 27, 12 10:23

Post #12 of 149 (8353 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [veganerd] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

veganerd wrote:
its a really stupid idea. outside of having uncontrolled pediatric epilepsy, there isnt a good reason to try it.

your bones will start to demineralize which would increase your chances of stress fractures, your cholesterol will rise, you will increase the likelyhood of developing kidney stones, and you will probably be constipated and if youre a woman, say bye to your regular periods. but you will probably lose weight so i guess its all roses.

seriously, eat a healthy diet with adequate portions and ignore fad diets. they are all bullshit.

how often do carnivores get stress fractures?

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veganerd

Nov 27, 12 10:34

Post #13 of 149 (8336 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [synthetic] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:
how often do carnivores get stress fractures?

no idea, i doubt any study has been done. i cant figure out why you are asking since the ketogenic diet is not a carnivorous diet. did you mean to ask if omnivores get stress fractures? if so, then the answer is likely just as often as anyone else. regardless, its well documented that the ketogenic diet is associated with bone demineralization which leads to fractures.

enemy of epilepsy



Marlonius

Nov 27, 12 10:57

Post #14 of 149 (8304 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [veganerd] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My mantra is that any diet that has a name is a bad diet.

I lost about 50 lb from my heaviest weight with a lifestyle change. If my diet had to have a name it would be the "Stop Eating So Much Food, You Fat Fuck" Diet.

Nobody wants to hear this though - they want some radical quick fix using the "secret doctors don't want you to know".


Devlin

Nov 27, 12 11:02

Post #15 of 149 (8292 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Marlonius] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Marlonius wrote:
My mantra is that any diet that has a name is a bad diet.

I lost about 50 lb from my heaviest weight with a lifestyle change. If my diet had to have a name it would be the "Stop Eating So Much Food, You Fat Fuck" Diet.

Nobody wants to hear this though - they want some radical quick fix using the "secret doctors don't want you to know".

DASH diet.

That's the problem with blanket application. It's not always true.

John


Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |


veganerd

Nov 27, 12 11:11

Post #16 of 149 (8269 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Devlin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Devlin wrote:
Marlonius wrote:
My mantra is that any diet that has a name is a bad diet.

I lost about 50 lb from my heaviest weight with a lifestyle change. If my diet had to have a name it would be the "Stop Eating So Much Food, You Fat Fuck" Diet.

Nobody wants to hear this though - they want some radical quick fix using the "secret doctors don't want you to know".


DASH diet.

That's the problem with blanket application. It's not always true.

John


for the most part marlonius is correct. the DASH diest essentially follows what medicine has been saying about healthy eating for years. low sodium, plenty of fruits and veggies, whole grains and low fat. giving it a catchy acronym doesnt change that.

enemy of epilepsy



(This post was edited by veganerd on Nov 27, 12 11:12)


Andrew69

Nov 27, 12 13:08

Post #17 of 149 (8183 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [mauricemaher] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

mauricemaher wrote:
I have spent (wasted) a fair amount of time trying to find some sort evidence if diet alone can affect the ratio at which fat is burned in the local muscle group.
Not saying that evidence does not exist but I haven't found it yet.
You have now :-)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...es&dbfrom=pubmed

TBH, If got more (somewhere) but cant really be bothered digging them out!


dwesley

Nov 27, 12 16:56

Post #18 of 149 (8062 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [synthetic] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

are you a carnivore?


veganerd

Nov 27, 12 17:03

Post #19 of 149 (8046 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [dwesley] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

dwesley wrote:
are you a carnivore?


ironically, i think syntheic is a vegetarian or vegan like me.

enemy of epilepsy



jmayo

Nov 27, 12 17:17

Post #20 of 149 (8014 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Marlonius] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Marlonius wrote:
My mantra is that any diet that has a name is a bad diet.

I lost about 50 lb from my heaviest weight with a lifestyle change. If my diet had to have a name it would be the "Stop Eating So Much Food, You Fat Fuck" Diet.

Nobody wants to hear this though - they want some radical quick fix using the "secret doctors don't want you to know".



Classic! I wonder if that book would sell?


karma

Nov 27, 12 17:26

Post #21 of 149 (7999 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

sholbk wrote:
Has anyone read...The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. Have you tried a ketogenic diet for training? What was your result?

Just remember Ketosis is one thing and ketoacidosis is an entirely different and much more dangerous state to be in.

As for the whole "food groups" argument going on here I simply hate that someone created such a tag line. There are really only two food groups. Food that is good for you and food that is bad for you. Eat from the good list and you will look feel and perform great.

What is your goal in trying to get into ketosis? Do you have a vast quantity of weight to lose?

Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach


Cheddar

Nov 27, 12 18:01

Post #22 of 149 (7964 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Its a good idea if you want heart disease and to not get more fit.

Michael J. Pelechaty
Brewer, Black Box Brewing Co.

"Yeah, I was depressed for a little while, but then I remembered how awesome I am."


mauricemaher

Nov 27, 12 18:08

Post #23 of 149 (7952 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Wow,

They had 53% fat, crazy. I thought that people who had that much fat were well....um maybe fat!

I am not sure though with the drop in RER and BL at threshold why they didn't get faster, maybe requires longer than 5 weeks for adaptations in speed to occur.

Interesting results though, thanks for the link.

I'm off to have nachos and wings and buy some bacon on the way home ;)
http://www.multisportsolutions.com


Kilo Juliett

Nov 27, 12 18:09

Post #24 of 149 (7950 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was in Ketosis over the summer trying to lose the last 10 lbs before a HIM. Training really sucked. I had zero energy for it. I did lose some weight though.

I would do ketosis before you start training. That is what I'm doing right now. I literally just started restricting carbs yesterday. I plan on eating a ketogenic diet to get rid of all the weight I've gained since summer and then once I'm at a weight I'm satisfied with I'll start eating a normal diet and start training so I don't gain it back.



veganerd

Nov 27, 12 18:15

Post #25 of 149 (7940 views)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [ktj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Wht not eat a healthy diet with smaller portions while you excersize? Its very effective and There is absolutely no healthier way to lose weight.

enemy of epilepsy


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