Type 1 here too and on a Ketogenic diet for 3 1/2 months. My A1C dropped from 7.0 to 5.8% in 7 weeks and goal is sub 5.5%, never had that in my life before. There have been many reports of Type 2 dropping all meds while on the Ketogenic diet. I'm on it for life and would recommend to all diabetics.

On the training front, performance suffered at first (10% slower generally) but it's slowly coming back (3-5% slower) which I can deal with given the health benefits. That said it took a while to get used to it, felt I could function OK after about 3 weeks but still suffered lots on higher intensity sessions, then 3 months after I started there was another switch and have been feeling great since.

Definitely not the diet for a world champion or world class athlete, but for the average age grouper, especially the very health conscious and a bit heavier, can be an interesting choice.

Vinnie

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Vinnie Santana, Multisport Coach
http://www.ironguides.net
* * * Your best is our business. * * *

great A1c drop! yep keto can work. I have never tried it. I keep the carbs and jab accordingly and have had a1c's of 5.7% and 5.5%. although im only a year and a bit diagnosed so i suspect it gets more difficult to hold a1c's like that. It may be something i too have to look at in the future. As a type 1 yourself, wouldnt you have to spike yourself for races/training etc? Pre-diagnosis i never took a gel in my life. Now i have boxes of them.

Spike as in time the carbs around training? That's one solution to improve that last 5% of performance, however I'm not willing to pay the price as blood glucose goes out of whack doing that (or doing a weekly carb up for 5 hours).

The problem is that once the liver glycogen stores are full, its very easy to get the blood sugar spikes due to hormonal response and gluconeogenesis. So no gels ever again for me. If this is working for you that's a great deal, but once the honeymoon phase is over (which you can delay with keto diet), consider it as it makes life a whole lot easier, beyond words to describe.

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Vinnie Santana, Multisport Coach
http://www.ironguides.net
* * * Your best is our business. * * *

do you not go low without supplementing with carbs? I know hormonal response may give an initial rise, but i find this tapers quite quickly. How/what do you eat or do to keep blood sugar in check in a race?

It does not matter how "fat adapted" your body gets, there is a limit on how many calories per hour the body can get from fat. And in a trained athletes this limit is MUCH lower, than the power output for useful training.

So if you are in true ketosis AND don't consume carbs, the exercise intensity will be limited. A lot. As improvement will be.

Whether you like him or not, this guy - Ferrari - knows his stuff, unlike the "standing toilet expert" and magic bracelet salesman: http://53x12.com/...ge=article&id=50

all theory, we can use a well controlled study - taking athletes that are fat adapted of at least 1 year

Doesn't have much effect on weight, but will on composition. 3000kcal/day of ice cream vs chicken and vegetables may leave you at the same weight, but not composition. It has been shown that if you restrict calories you can loose weight regardless of what you are eating, but if you are not doing a very low cal diet, the different foods will result is different composition. I have seen many go on silly fad diets and loose weight while altering their composition in a poor manner, such as loosing muscle while gaining fat...yes, they weighed less, but looked worse.

Theory? The overwhelming majority of high level endurance athletes use a high carb diet. Kenian runners, well documented. Etheopian runners, well documented. Cyclists, triathletes ... Most on high carbs, a few on moderate carbs.

High level endurance athletes being "fat adapted by a fad diet"? None. Zero. Nada. Fat adapted by training? Yes!

Me and Vinnie Tortorich and Rich Roll just did a Spreecast and this topic came up:

http://www.spreecast.com/events/ben-rich-vinnie

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

Wrong.

Timothy Olson won Western States 100 on a ketogenic diet.

Ben won Leadville 125 doing it either ketogenically, or at least very low carb.

Would anyone stop to consider for a moment the possibility that since 99.99 percent of endurance athletes follow the herd and conventional wisdom of high carbs, the pool of people actually giving it a go is pretty small? As of right now, that is.

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I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.

Thanks for the link, love the podcast.
EB

They would be better if they ate more carbs, just the way human body works when you do things demanding

Yeah I'm sure Tim is really sad he missed out on his full potential while SMASHING the course record. But I suppose that was only because of the weather.

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I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.

You guys really need to give this magical Ketogenic stuff a rest. According to Olsen's own race report, he ate plenty of gels, orange slices, and Sierra Mist. http://www.irunfar.com/...2FwAAy+%28iRunFar%29

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Maybe I'd be better. Not necessarily healthier though. I don't cross the finish line for paychecks, so I don't necessarily care about being better.

But I do have genetic markers for Type II Diabetes - so being around for my grandchildren is more important.

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

RE: Tim Olsen

Low carb / NOT ketogenic diet.

Its not like it was intentional:

To quote him -

They started the climb up to Devils Thumb (mile 48) just a little bit ahead, but this is when things started feeling better for me. I made it through and was ready to climb. The weather was warming up a bit and my uphill legs were feeling strong. Thirty-six switchbacks and 1,500 feet later, I made my way back to the leaders and we rolled into the aid station feeling good. I made a stupid mistake and ran through that aid station a little too quickly. I was feeling so good that I forgot to grab any gels. A half mile down the road I realized I only had one gel and was not going to see my crew for 10 miles, yikes; this made me a little nervous, but I was hoping I could make it.

Mackey, Dylan, Wolfe, Sandes and I all wobbled our way down. When I finally reached the aid station, I was so stoked to get a gel in me, but they did not have one gel without caffeine. I don’t use caffeine and after many bathroom stops at last year’s Western States, I had decided to not use caffeine for this race. I really needed some nourishment quick, so I decided to have a few quick drinks of Sierra Mist and two orange slices. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it had to do. I knew I would be to my crew in five or so miles and then I could restock my pockets with gels that work for me.

I was a little scared with where my nutrition was going; I was really relying on fat as my fuel with the help of Vespa and was just hoping my body would ride the climb out. I had to battle many mind games before and during this year’s race. Circumstances don’t always go your way, but figuring them out on the fly is the only way to survive. The day before the race, I decided to be a part of the test studies. I did not eat breakfast Friday because they wanted us to give blood after a ten-hour fast. In the middle of giving blood I got incredibly dizzy, and the next thing I knew I was having crazy dreams and then woke up on the floor. I’ve never passed out before and it was not my ideal situation to experience it for the first time the day before the biggest race of my life. I felt pretty worn out and funky all day Friday, but regardless, I woke up Saturday ready for the journey that loomed ahead. Things don’t always go as planned, but accepting the situation and letting it not get to me helped me through other stages of the race. So I guess my body can take running a 100 miles in less than 15 hours, but giving blood is just too much for it; life is funny.

Vespa - Yes, its not well documented scientifically, but it is what he uses often in his training and racing. Pretty low carb for a gel. - http://www.vespapower.com/...-of-pouches_p_7.html

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

we already know its more ideal to consume straight sugar during the run because digestion of fat will slow you down. but the ABUSED idea of carbo loading for a race is what Im all about

Right. Some people overreact to stimuli and suffer the consequences. "If some carbs are good, then let's eat TONS of fast carbs! Wait, that made me sick, so let's eat NO carbs at all!" Just eat healthy food.

Edit - Above doesn't apply to TYPE 1 diabetics. My wife is one and I know that's special case stuff. Whatever you gotta do with that, you gotta do.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

the spreecast with vinnie and rich was good idea, but first one a tad disjointed. but the spreecast of superhuman was very good.

I'm doing it for the next 12 weeks leading up to Ironman Canada. Just blogged about it. I'm calling it the "Great Ketogenic Ironman Experiment". So far, I feel like a million bucks.

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

Damn, the magic bracelet really works!!! I gots ta get me one of those. Do they come in colors?

you probably eat so pure and healthy, but was wondering did you experience any side effects on ketosis like bad breath or strange body odor?

Yep, and here it is: http://www.skinnybitch.net/

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Rusch Racing | website | @maggieru | Instagram
Ask me about: Alto Cycling | Cuore | Base Performance | XTERRA Wetsuits | Cadence Run Company | First Bourn. Coached by: Desert Dude

Did a more elaborate description on my experience with ketosis, as the first one sparked so many objections. I believe, that ketogenic approach is not appropriate when training/racing entails bouts of higher intensities.

http://lc-triathlete.com/...etosis-for-athletes/