Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
synthetic wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Francois wrote:
It's an interesting (somewhat of) a case study, but that's pretty much it. Moreover, the main question is: does it make you faster?


regardless if it made you fatser, which seems dubious, its not a healthy diet.


you keep repeating this; can you provide some peer reviewed research backing your claim?

the inverse diet, can also be considered unhealthy too.


two things, the burden of proof rests with the person who postulates the ketogenic diet is healthy. ignoring that, i will indulge you. here ya go, read up the best thing that can be said is that there is not a strong consensus however, given the extra risks associated with carbohydrate restricted diets, you have much to overcome to say they are healthy.

how many other "healthy" diets do you know of that retard growth, weaken bones, lead to amenorrhea....

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [jmayo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jmayo wrote:
Marlonius wrote:
My mantra is that any diet that has a name is a bad diet.

I lost about 50 lb from my heaviest weight with a lifestyle change. If my diet had to have a name it would be the "Stop Eating So Much Food, You Fat Fuck" Diet.

Nobody wants to hear this though - they want some radical quick fix using the "secret doctors don't want you to know".




Classic! I wonder if that book would sell?

I think it would sell great!

"Chapter One:

Eat less, exercise more.

The End"

http://nathankillam.com - Professional Triathlete
https://twitter.com/nathankillam
https://www.facebook.com/nathan.killam.3
http://instagram.com/nathankillam/
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pubmed ketogenic diet side effects. Try it.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tried it and couldn't see too much bad stuff in the first few pages of results...unless increased quality of life for advanced cancer patients is a negative??

Everything has positives and negatives, including racing triathlons.

Each to their own I suppose...
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew69 wrote:
Each to their own I suppose...

Tried harder then....
Yes it has positive effects in some instances for cancer patients. Unless everyone here is a cancer patient, it's still a dangerous 'diet'. Chemotherapy is
also good for cancer patients...should we all try? I love the 'to each their own' comments, and how people are so willingly discarding science whenever
they want to believe whatever they want...ketogenic diet, vaccines are dangerous, Earth is 6000yo.
Yes KD can be used for some cohorts of patients. And used very effectively. Obese folks, people with DM, uncontrollable epilepsy, etc. Unless you're in this
case, it's not a healthy way of eating. If you don't look just at the summary of the results in pubmed, but take the time to look at the inclusion and exclusion
criteria for the studies, you may realize that it's not supposed to be a way of eating, but rather a way to address diseases with nutrition. You can also look at
all the data and recommendation on the CDC website, or HHR. CDC is clearer I think.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I could study pubmed for many, many weeks, ( I do when Im bored actually) and like everything on there, I would find positive and negative outcomes.

To make a blanket statement like a KD is dangerous is just not right. For example, there are lots of studies that show that a KD could increase your chances of a cardiac event due to raised cholesterol, etc, however, there are just as many that say the opposite, that a KD may actually prevent a cardiac event.

My point was this. Like everything else in life, be it training, rx drugs or anything else one might consider, we all react differently.
One mans elixor is another mans poison. You need to try it for yourself (well maybe you dont, but those interested in a KD).

Trying it for 30 days in the off season isnt going to kill you. If it doesnt work for you, then it doesnt work for you and thats fine.
Personally, I know that I feel way better while on a KD. My BP drops, my triglycerides drop, my chol levels are great and I feel like I can train for ever.

BUT, and its a big BUT, I dont eat that way for one very, very good reason. Beer.
Beer kicks me out of ketosis and it takes me forever to get back into keto while eating ~50-70g carb/day, or I have to be strict with my carb intake.

So, I drink beer (often too much) and take medication for my bp (everything else is ok, but interestingly my triglycerides are higher while not on a KD)
Maybe its time for a new years resolution regarding beer...
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I could study pubmed for many, many weeks, ( I do when Im bored actually) and like everything on there, I would find positive and negative outcomes

True, which is why francois said to look at the totality of research.

Even looking at individual studies its clear that some can be ignored because they are poorly conducted.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trying for a month won't kill you and will yield positive effects. Doesn't mean it's not dangerous. That's why there are studies to look at and I said look at inclusion and exclusion criteria.

Given the comments I guess for most here it's not about science it's about believing so I will stop wasting my time.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Francois wrote:
Given the comments I guess for most here it's not about science it's about believing so I will stop wasting my time.
Agreed
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Interesting thread. I did IMCdA this year. My stomach shut down on the bike and I bonked (literally blacked out) in T2. It was all I could do to finish the race.

I am doing the Dallas Marathon in a week. I read the book and went LCHF two weeks ago. I will let you know how it goes. My weekend runs last week sucked ass. I could tell I was totally glycogen depleted. My run this morning felt normal. I am not ST fast, but I ran 5 miles in 40 minutes this morning which is about as fast as I run 5 miles unless I am actually racing. I will let you know how the race goes.


Panabax

We’ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.—Robert Wilensky
Last edited by: Panabax: Nov 30, 12 17:12
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My son has a severe epilepsy so we did the keto diet with him for over a year. Is the keto diet you guys talk about the same ultra-strict type that we had to use? I can't imagine ever doing something like this for an unproven performance gain. We spent a good part of our weekends doing nothing but coming up with precise menus and weighing tiny amounts of food in perfect proportions to prepare for the week ahead. We had to weigh to the gram, and he had to eat every single morsel or it wouldn't work. The main ingredient we used was heavy cream (that is until we tried dairy and gluten free keto - yikes!). We'd do anything for our kid of course, but it was truly a miserable way to live. And it caused other issues, like constipation so bad that we had to start giving him twice a day enemas. And, of course you have to monitor urine (and blood in our case) to make sure you are remaining in ketosis and have the correct glucose levels. IF the keto discussed here is the same that is used for epilepsy, than I can only say that it is much harder than it sounds.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
synthetic wrote:
veganerd wrote:
its a really stupid idea. outside of having uncontrolled pediatric epilepsy, there isnt a good reason to try it.

your bones will start to demineralize which would increase your chances of stress fractures, your cholesterol will rise, you will increase the likelyhood of developing kidney stones, and you will probably be constipated and if youre a woman, say bye to your regular periods. but you will probably lose weight so i guess its all roses.

seriously, eat a healthy diet with adequate portions and ignore fad diets. they are all bullshit.


how often do carnivores get stress fractures?


dude have you seen jurassic park: the lost world? the baby t-rex broke its leg. you've obviously been debunked by facts.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [dyhopper] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dyhopper wrote:
My son has a severe epilepsy so we did the keto diet with him for over a year. Is the keto diet you guys talk about the same ultra-strict type that we had to use? I can't imagine ever doing something like this for an unproven performance gain. We spent a good part of our weekends doing nothing but coming up with precise menus and weighing tiny amounts of food in perfect proportions to prepare for the week ahead. We had to weigh to the gram, and he had to eat every single morsel or it wouldn't work. The main ingredient we used was heavy cream (that is until we tried dairy and gluten free keto - yikes!). We'd do anything for our kid of course, but it was truly a miserable way to live. And it caused other issues, like constipation so bad that we had to start giving him twice a day enemas. And, of course you have to monitor urine (and blood in our case) to make sure you are remaining in ketosis and have the correct glucose levels. IF the keto discussed here is the same that is used for epilepsy, than I can only say that it is much harder than it sounds.

It is indeed the same diet they are advocating. Thank you for chiming in with your experiences. my heart goes out to you. My son also has epilepsy although we are extremely fortunate that his seizures are well controlled by medication.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Read the book "why we get fat" and some of you will change your minds. It is not about calories in and calories out, it is about eating the right calories. Glad it has worked for you
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [sholbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm full on into this. Here's my two interviews with Peter Attia, who is a whiz with this stuff:

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/...sting-low-carb-diet/

and

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/...w-carbohydrate-diet/

Hope that helps.

Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [pacificfit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
no offense Ben. But your posts have lost a touch of credibility with your power bracelet pedaling.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
how many other "healthy" diets do you know of that retard growth, weaken bones, lead to amenorrhea....
Im bored :-)

Just search pubmed using the terms "ketogenic diet retard growth"
Not a single article came back using those terms.
Dropped the retard search term and got 230 articles.
Havent found one yet (not all the way through them yet) that has anything adverse to say. Some have said that a KD is no more efficient than a typical wetern diet for weight loss (no surprise there)
Many are concerned with the reduced rate of prostate cancer and malignant brain tumor growth associated with KD.
Will sort through the rest another day, but havent been scared off as yet.

About to search for weaken bones.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There certainly does appear to be an issue with KD diets and loss of bone density.
The mechanism is unclear (from the papers I read), but it does exist.

Certainly something to be weary of.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Absolutely no references on pubmed to KD's and amenorrhea (had to google it, always good to learn something new!)
Now knowing what it actually is, I dont think its something I have to worry about (if it actually exists)

Kidney stones is also a possible side effect, but I havent been able to find rates of stones in those on a KD vs those on a normal western diet.
There are some crazy site out there though...one site I visited (partially) blames the rise of kidney stones in children to global warming ( I shit you not!)

Anyway, later peeps. Got a race in the morning hear downunder!
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
coates_hbk wrote:
no offense Ben. But your posts have lost a touch of credibility with your power bracelet pedaling.

You're entitled to your own opinion...and spelling.

Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [pacificfit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pacificfit wrote:
coates_hbk wrote:
no offense Ben. But your posts have lost a touch of credibility with your power bracelet pedaling.


You're entitled to your own opinion...and spelling.

I'm curious: where do you see a spelling error in his post?
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Or maybe it is because researchers tend to use ketogenic diet when it's usually used as a 'treatment option' (epilepsy and other brain mysregulations), whereas those who don't want to 'make it sound cool' i.e. when targeting the general population, tend to call it 'low carb, high protein, etc' or 'Atkins...' You can find plenty of articles mentioning the side effects of KD-like diets.
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [pacificfit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pacificfit wrote:
coates_hbk wrote:
no offense Ben. But your posts have lost a touch of credibility with your power bracelet pedaling.


You're entitled to your own opinion...and spelling.

I do believe Daniel Patrick Moynihan has a pithy response for you.....

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [pacificfit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pacificfit wrote:
coates_hbk wrote:
no offense Ben. But your posts have lost a touch of credibility with your power bracelet pedaling.


You're entitled to your own opinion...and spelling.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. His is far less likely to be bat shit crazy than yours...

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
Quote Reply
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Endurance Training [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew69 wrote:
veganerd wrote:

how many other "healthy" diets do you know of that retard growth, weaken bones, lead to amenorrhea....

Im bored :-)

Just search pubmed using the terms "ketogenic diet retard growth"
Not a single article came back using those terms.
Dropped the retard search term and got 230 articles.
Havent found one yet (not all the way through them yet) that has anything adverse to say. Some have said that a KD is no more efficient than a typical wetern diet for weight loss (no surprise there)
Many are concerned with the reduced rate of prostate cancer and malignant brain tumor growth associated with KD.
Will sort through the rest another day, but havent been scared off as yet.

About to search for weaken bones.

Hrm.

http://www.nature.com/...3/abs/pr200478a.html - impaired brain growth, impaired visual/spatial learning and memory.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0165380600001309 - KD rats had impaired learning and impaired weight gain
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...2.tb00769.x/abstract - very young children show poor growth on a ketogenic diet
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0002822305001537 - height significantly impacted by ketogenic diet.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...57.2003.57002.x/full - significant portion of adolescent females reported menstrual effects
Many of the other studies cited list menstrual problems as a side effect of a KD

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/6/1678.short - bone loss in children on KD
http://link.springer.com/...2FBF02441213?LI=true - bone loss on KD, can me mitigated by Vit D and other supplementation

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
Quote Reply

Prev Next