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Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes
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More data in the "eat more carbs" camp. https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/...86/s12986-017-0175-5

This is a relatively subjective study, as far as these things go, and I wouldn't say it's particularly revolutionary. But it does seem to be yet another data point in the increasingly obvious array of data that just doesn't back up KD for athletes.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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First of all, let me say I'm a huge proponent of eating carbs for optimal performance, but I do have a decent amount of practical experience with KD. This study has a few areas where I would have done things very differently:


"Compliance with the dietary regimen was monitored by measuring urinary ketones daily"

1. I would have thought that for a scientific study, they wouldn't choose the least reliable measurement method. Urine is least accurate. Blood and breath are significantly more accurate.

2. " limit their carbohydrate intake to a maximum of 20–40 g/day "
That's way too low for an athlete. There is an optimal range for athletes - under 4 mmol blood measurement of ketones. Which usually would be 150g per day. With my own testing, I could maintain 3-4 mmol levels on intake upwards of 200g per day.

If I were designing a test to fail, I would design it exactly like theirs. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Volek's faster study is also ridiculously flawed.

But at the end of the day, I agree, if you want to go fast, eat enough carbs!

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Everybody knows keto falls on its face at say mid tempo and above. If you are doing aerobic exercise that requires that type of power then you should do targeted keto for that event or training.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Meek] [ In reply to ]
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" Everybody knows keto falls on its face at say mid tempo and above. If you are doing aerobic exercise that requires that type of power then you should do targeted keto for that event or training. "
Apparently I am outside of the "everybody" group. I have been eating in a similar manner to what is described by RobGrey- for over a year, and my training and racing performances have all improved. I know a number of other people on this type of diet who have all noted positive results. As RobGrey pointed out the study on this post is very flawed in a number of ways, including a conclusion that first states that there was no significant impact on measured fitness, and then concludes that it might be an issue for competitive athletes.
My main purpose for the training I do is to improve my health- to me in seems counter intuitive to spend time building the fitness of my body, then turn around and subject it to all of the problems associated with a high carb diet- (insulin pikes, hormone imbalances, diabetes risk, Alzheimer's risk, constant inflammation...) . There is a BIG difference between eating a diet at about 30% carbs (which is a solid, healthy number), and the 60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.
Lastly, there is that little known triathlete- Mark Allen- who after modifying his training was able to run low 5 minute pace at a dominant fat burning energy level. That seems pretty competitive to me!
Why are so many people offended and/or upset that you can actually be competitive AND healthy ?[
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Reminds me that this might not have been raised on the forum before: along the same lines but a high quality well controlled study in elite endurance athletes by some of the best people in the world at this type of research:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28012184
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [CLA] [ In reply to ]
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no one found this interesting??
Quote:
handgrip strength rose slightly from 40.1 ± 8.8 to 41.0 ± 9.1 kg by 2.5% (P = 0.047)

so seems beneficial for fast twitch folk? weight lifters, sprinters...
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
no one found this interesting??
Quote:
handgrip strength rose slightly from 40.1 ± 8.8 to 41.0 ± 9.1 kg by 2.5% (P = 0.047)


so seems beneficial for fast twitch folk? weight lifters, sprinters...

Too big of a stretch based on this data. A small increase like that, while statistically significant is nothing much. And it could just be due to testing order due to the study design.

Simplify, Train, Live
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]
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The Mark Allen example doesn't really correlate to this study or question from the diet side of the equation. Training adaptation, with or without the presence of skewed metabolic expenditures, are a different discussion and perhaps when both are altered they can potentially "feed" off each other producing some sweet spots for certain intensities or individuals.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]
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60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.

Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?

Because on the face of it it's ridiculous - even those athletes who desperately want to get to 70% carbs have to be highly disciplined to do so, much less the "average North American" who eats at McDonalds on a regular basis.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [eb] [ In reply to ]
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eb wrote:
60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.

Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?

Because on the face of it it's ridiculous - even those athletes who desperately want to get to 70% carbs have to be highly disciplined to do so, much less the "average North American" who eats at McDonalds on a regular basis.

If this is what I think it is https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/diet.htm the typical American diet is about half carbs (I'm going to hazard a guess that a lot of that is highly refined grains and sugar), a third fat, and the remaining 15% or so protein.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Mike Prevost] [ In reply to ]
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Mike Prevost wrote:
synthetic wrote:
no one found this interesting??
Quote:
handgrip strength rose slightly from 40.1 ± 8.8 to 41.0 ± 9.1 kg by 2.5% (P = 0.047)


so seems beneficial for fast twitch folk? weight lifters, sprinters...


Too big of a stretch based on this data. A small increase like that, while statistically significant is nothing much. And it could just be due to testing order due to the study design.

the cycling test also had a similar change to that degree
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]
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IntenseOne wrote:
" Everybody knows keto falls on its face at say mid tempo and above. If you are doing aerobic exercise that requires that type of power then you should do targeted keto for that event or training. "
Apparently I am outside of the "everybody" group. I have been eating in a similar manner to what is described by RobGrey- for over a year, and my training and racing performances have all improved. I know a number of other people on this type of diet who have all noted positive results. As RobGrey pointed out the study on this post is very flawed in a number of ways, including a conclusion that first states that there was no significant impact on measured fitness, and then concludes that it might be an issue for competitive athletes.
My main purpose for the training I do is to improve my health- to me in seems counter intuitive to spend time building the fitness of my body, then turn around and subject it to all of the problems associated with a high carb diet- (insulin pikes, hormone imbalances, diabetes risk, Alzheimer's risk, constant inflammation...) . There is a BIG difference between eating a diet at about 30% carbs (which is a solid, healthy number), and the 60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.
Lastly, there is that little known triathlete- Mark Allen- who after modifying his training was able to run low 5 minute pace at a dominant fat burning energy level. That seems pretty competitive to me!
Why are so many people offended and/or upset that you can actually be competitive AND healthy ?[

Let's let the performance element on the side for the moment. (I am not entirely sure but do believe that performance is hindered to some extend with low carb. Especially when you need intensity).

But lets look on the health side. There are good and bot so good and downright bad foods you can eat. But by no means is an entire macronutrient bad for your health.

People tend to hop from one extreme to the next. Years ago all fat was deemed to be bad. When one found out that they are essential and some of them really healthy some people just switched their belief entirely and now carbs are the new devil. But carbs are not just pasta and biscuits and sugar and can enhance ones health.

The problem with diabetes is not just sugar but a combination of fat and sugar and too many calories. There are some native cultures that basically live off carbs. They have no diabetes and metabolise their carbs with no insulin. And they are perfectly healthy. Their body is just so well adapted to it.
Nor is insulin itself a bad thing.
Risk factors for diabetes are also casein consumption, too much meat or too much fat.

Another thing is cancer. Sure, there are cancer cells that feed off carbs. But there are other forms of cancer that are fueld by fat. It is not yet possible to determine what a particular form of cancer cell craves.

Also keto diets have shown to be too low in fibre and lead to unfavorable gut ph. Thus ones good gut bacteria is killed.

I think one can be healthy on a higher fat OR a higher carb diet. It might be a personal thing. But go too low with carbs and it can mess up your metabolsim.

It can also be a self fulfilling prophecy. One abstains from carbs religiously because one think it is bad. Ones body loses its ability to process them. One eats them on an occasion again only to see that it leads to problems. One feels reassured.

I eat more on the carb side and I feel great. My mood is good, my energy is high and i can still go for hours without eating.

I say I eat high carb but I hardly ever eat pasta, bread, processed sugar or cakes etc. My foundation is potatoes, (white) rice, millet, quinoa, oats, fruit, veggies, chickpeas.
Of course I also eat meat and have my fat sources, but carbs are my main thing to go.

I don't want to attack you or your way of eating but just show that there are different sides of the coin. One (myself often included) is usually trapped on one of them.

I try to listen to vegans, paleo guys and native cultures or tcm at the same time. Vegand eat lots of different veggies and fibre, paleos value high quality meat and promote fasting. I think the most important thing is that you eat unprocessed stuff and listen to your body.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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ToBeasy wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
" Everybody knows keto falls on its face at say mid tempo and above. If you are doing aerobic exercise that requires that type of power then you should do targeted keto for that event or training. "
Apparently I am outside of the "everybody" group. I have been eating in a similar manner to what is described by RobGrey- for over a year, and my training and racing performances have all improved. I know a number of other people on this type of diet who have all noted positive results. As RobGrey pointed out the study on this post is very flawed in a number of ways, including a conclusion that first states that there was no significant impact on measured fitness, and then concludes that it might be an issue for competitive athletes.
My main purpose for the training I do is to improve my health- to me in seems counter intuitive to spend time building the fitness of my body, then turn around and subject it to all of the problems associated with a high carb diet- (insulin pikes, hormone imbalances, diabetes risk, Alzheimer's risk, constant inflammation...) . There is a BIG difference between eating a diet at about 30% carbs (which is a solid, healthy number), and the 60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.
Lastly, there is that little known triathlete- Mark Allen- who after modifying his training was able to run low 5 minute pace at a dominant fat burning energy level. That seems pretty competitive to me!
Why are so many people offended and/or upset that you can actually be competitive AND healthy ?[


Let's let the performance element on the side for the moment. (I am not entirely sure but do believe that performance is hindered to some extend with low carb. Especially when you need intensity).

But lets look on the health side. There are good and bot so good and downright bad foods you can eat. But by no means is an entire macronutrient bad for your health.

People tend to hop from one extreme to the next. Years ago all fat was deemed to be bad. When one found out that they are essential and some of them really healthy some people just switched their belief entirely and now carbs are the new devil. But carbs are not just pasta and biscuits and sugar and can enhance ones health.

The problem with diabetes is not just sugar but a combination of fat and sugar and too many calories. There are some native cultures that basically live off carbs. They have no diabetes and metabolise their carbs with no insulin. And they are perfectly healthy. Their body is just so well adapted to it.
Nor is insulin itself a bad thing.
Risk factors for diabetes are also casein consumption, too much meat or too much fat.

Another thing is cancer. Sure, there are cancer cells that feed off carbs. But there are other forms of cancer that are fueld by fat. It is not yet possible to determine what a particular form of cancer cell craves.

Also keto diets have shown to be too low in fibre and lead to unfavorable gut ph. Thus ones good gut bacteria is killed.

I think one can be healthy on a higher fat OR a higher carb diet. It might be a personal thing. But go too low with carbs and it can mess up your metabolsim.

It can also be a self fulfilling prophecy. One abstains from carbs religiously because one think it is bad. Ones body loses its ability to process them. One eats them on an occasion again only to see that it leads to problems. One feels reassured.

I eat more on the carb side and I feel great. My mood is good, my energy is high and i can still go for hours without eating.

I say I eat high carb but I hardly ever eat pasta, bread, processed sugar or cakes etc. My foundation is potatoes, (white) rice, millet, quinoa, oats, fruit, veggies, chickpeas.
Of course I also eat meat and have my fat sources, but carbs are my main thing to go.

I don't want to attack you or your way of eating but just show that there are different sides of the coin. One (myself often included) is usually trapped on one of them.

I try to listen to vegans, paleo guys and native cultures or tcm at the same time. Vegand eat lots of different veggies and fibre, paleos value high quality meat and promote fasting. I think the most important thing is that you eat unprocessed stuff and listen to your body.


And the last thing is really where you lost me as I have tried most of the diets (or ways of eating) that you mentioned about and find a loose version of paleo works best for me and my body. Telling anyone to listen to there body when food supply in any form is abundant is complete crap and simply does not work. In America at least and possibly most of the developed world our lives are built around conserving energy (or increase efficiency for companies) and have food (mostly processed) thrown at us in every way. We center our whole lives around eating meals and enjoying food and I believe that we are programmed to take in calories whether we need them or not. If I were to listen to my body I would probably gain 30 lbs quick as I want food that is savory and sweet.

I think nutrition and diet is probably the most important topic that is just not being discussed enough in and especially outside of endurance sports.

I wish we had 100 more people like Rob Gray trying different things and reporting results.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed.

I had the opportunity to listen to Dr. Louise Burke (Head of Sport Nutrition at the Australian Institute of Sport; team dietician for the Australian Olympic team) speak at a conference this past year. Most of what she talked about re: low-carb diets is summarized in her review article linked below (free!).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26553488
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [hueby416] [ In reply to ]
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hueby416 wrote:
ToBeasy wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
" Everybody knows keto falls on its face at say mid tempo and above. If you are doing aerobic exercise that requires that type of power then you should do targeted keto for that event or training. "
Apparently I am outside of the "everybody" group. I have been eating in a similar manner to what is described by RobGrey- for over a year, and my training and racing performances have all improved. I know a number of other people on this type of diet who have all noted positive results. As RobGrey pointed out the study on this post is very flawed in a number of ways, including a conclusion that first states that there was no significant impact on measured fitness, and then concludes that it might be an issue for competitive athletes.
My main purpose for the training I do is to improve my health- to me in seems counter intuitive to spend time building the fitness of my body, then turn around and subject it to all of the problems associated with a high carb diet- (insulin pikes, hormone imbalances, diabetes risk, Alzheimer's risk, constant inflammation...) . There is a BIG difference between eating a diet at about 30% carbs (which is a solid, healthy number), and the 60-70% carbs that is the average in North American diets.
Lastly, there is that little known triathlete- Mark Allen- who after modifying his training was able to run low 5 minute pace at a dominant fat burning energy level. That seems pretty competitive to me!
Why are so many people offended and/or upset that you can actually be competitive AND healthy ?[


Let's let the performance element on the side for the moment. (I am not entirely sure but do believe that performance is hindered to some extend with low carb. Especially when you need intensity).

But lets look on the health side. There are good and bot so good and downright bad foods you can eat. But by no means is an entire macronutrient bad for your health.

People tend to hop from one extreme to the next. Years ago all fat was deemed to be bad. When one found out that they are essential and some of them really healthy some people just switched their belief entirely and now carbs are the new devil. But carbs are not just pasta and biscuits and sugar and can enhance ones health.

The problem with diabetes is not just sugar but a combination of fat and sugar and too many calories. There are some native cultures that basically live off carbs. They have no diabetes and metabolise their carbs with no insulin. And they are perfectly healthy. Their body is just so well adapted to it.
Nor is insulin itself a bad thing.
Risk factors for diabetes are also casein consumption, too much meat or too much fat.

Another thing is cancer. Sure, there are cancer cells that feed off carbs. But there are other forms of cancer that are fueld by fat. It is not yet possible to determine what a particular form of cancer cell craves.

Also keto diets have shown to be too low in fibre and lead to unfavorable gut ph. Thus ones good gut bacteria is killed.

I think one can be healthy on a higher fat OR a higher carb diet. It might be a personal thing. But go too low with carbs and it can mess up your metabolsim.

It can also be a self fulfilling prophecy. One abstains from carbs religiously because one think it is bad. Ones body loses its ability to process them. One eats them on an occasion again only to see that it leads to problems. One feels reassured.

I eat more on the carb side and I feel great. My mood is good, my energy is high and i can still go for hours without eating.

I say I eat high carb but I hardly ever eat pasta, bread, processed sugar or cakes etc. My foundation is potatoes, (white) rice, millet, quinoa, oats, fruit, veggies, chickpeas.
Of course I also eat meat and have my fat sources, but carbs are my main thing to go.

I don't want to attack you or your way of eating but just show that there are different sides of the coin. One (myself often included) is usually trapped on one of them.

I try to listen to vegans, paleo guys and native cultures or tcm at the same time. Vegand eat lots of different veggies and fibre, paleos value high quality meat and promote fasting. I think the most important thing is that you eat unprocessed stuff and listen to your body.


And the last thing is really where you lost me as I have tried most of the diets (or ways of eating) that you mentioned about and find a loose version of paleo works best for me and my body. Telling anyone to listen to there body when food supply in any form is abundant is complete crap and simply does not work. In America at least and possibly most of the developed world our lives are built around conserving energy (or increase efficiency for companies) and have food (mostly processed) thrown at us in every way. We center our whole lives around eating meals and enjoying food and I believe that we are programmed to take in calories whether we need them or not. If I were to listen to my body I would probably gain 30 lbs quick as I want food that is savory and sweet.

I think nutrition and diet is probably the most important topic that is just not being discussed enough in and especially outside of endurance sports.

I wish we had 100 more people like Rob Gray trying different things and reporting results.

I see what you mean. But I didn't mean it in the way; oh that biscuit looks so good I need it now.

I mean listen to your body how you feel after you have eaten something and the day after. Do you have energy, how is your mood? How is your satiety? Are you comfortably full?

To truly listen to the signs of your body you need to stop eating processed junk food first and replace it with natural stuff. After some time your body tells you very well what it needs. You learn to differentiate between true hunger and cravings.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I just did Ultraman Florida a couple of days ago.
I know some wouldn't say my result is exceptional but if I count a 500m longer swim due to getting off course, having 12 red lights on the bike on day 1 and a gazillion stop signs. On day 3 I was dealing with hip and keen injuries since I had two bike crashes on the same hip and knee in a three month period prior to the race - and all my training runs and the majority of my training bike rides were painful.

On the top of that I'm 48 years old and all that while on a ketogenic diet.

My nutrition was very simple - 90Cal of SuperStarch each 1.5h for all thee days. The day before day 1 I ate breakfast in the morning and my next meal was after I finished day 1 - more than 24h later.

I switched to a ketogenic diet in August 2015 sacrificing Kona 2015 (and I sucked) since I new I would not be able to adapt in such a short time.

Boki
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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Metabolise carbs with no insulin? As a type 1 diabetic I would like to see the literature on that one
Last edited by: coates_hbk: Feb 25, 17 5:34
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [ In reply to ]
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"The problem with diabetes is not just sugar but a combination of fat and sugar and too many calories. There are some native cultures that basically live off carbs. They have no diabetes and metabolise their carbs with no insulin. And they are perfectly healthy. Their body is just so well adapted to it.
Nor is insulin itself a bad thing.
Risk factors for diabetes are also casein consumption, too much meat or too much fat. "


A lot of strange claims in this quote. I can assure you that a normal physiology in those cultures is producing insulin in response to carbs. Insulin in the body does much more than to just help move glucose into cells, and is being emitted in small amounts all day (in healthy people).
And I'm not sure how you came up with the claim that dairy products or "too much fat" can cause diabetes.
Type 2 is generally associated with a sedentary lifestyle, too many calories, particularly in the form of simple carbs, overweight/obesity, then eventually a resistance in the cells to the body's own insulin, and then declining pancreatic function (insulin and other hormones, which will cause a host of other problems).
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [boki] [ In reply to ]
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How did you feel during the race? Shoot me an email at texafornia at the gmails and let's chat! This could be good interview material. I had Rob on twice to detail what he did and people loved it.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [boki] [ In reply to ]
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boki wrote:
I just did Ultraman Florida a couple of days ago.
I know some wouldn't say my result is exceptional but if I count a 500m longer swim due to getting off course, having 12 red lights on the bike on day 1 and a gazillion stop signs. On day 3 I was dealing with hip and keen injuries since I had two bike crashes on the same hip and knee in a three month period prior to the race - and all my training runs and the majority of my training bike rides were painful.

On the top of that I'm 48 years old and all that while on a ketogenic diet.

My nutrition was very simple - 90Cal of SuperStarch each 1.5h for all thee days. The day before day 1 I ate breakfast in the morning and my next meal was after I finished day 1 - more than 24h later.

I switched to a ketogenic diet in August 2015 sacrificing Kona 2015 (and I sucked) since I new I would not be able to adapt in such a short time.

Boki

I just wanted to say congrats on your UMFL finish given all the crashes too.

In terms of this thread, I am just reading and absorbing. I've tended to lean towards the high carb end while maintaining fairly low body fat all my adult/triathlete life. Being exposed to Rob Gray, in the last 2 years, I have added a lot more good fats to my diet. The only thing I have really noticed is desire to eat a bit less frequently....probably the calorie total is the same over the day. I have not really done any long course racing in 2 years, but I had a riding camp in the Alps last summer where I felt I was on fire between hours 4 and hours 7 of our daily 5-7 hours of riding. But there could be many factors at play, but if my body is gradually training itself to consume available fats for energy better, I figure it is worth the experiment (as long as I don't turn into a complete pillbury doughboy in the process which does not seem to be happening as I am 2-3 lbs above race weight with no races in the horizon).
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Brett,

I listened to your interviews with Rob and I enjoyed them. :)

I felt great energy wise. The only two problems I had were injuries from two previous crushes and on day 3 I didn't go to restroom #2 "all the way" before I started to run.

I'll send you an email. Currently I'm out way to Tampa, - my wife is running the Gasparilla 1/2 mara. I have a short trip to Serbia coming up. But we can chat during my visit while there.

Boki
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev,

Thank you very much.

I was on a high carb diet almost whole my life. Part of my family is from Italy so, carbs were in my diet by default. A whole loaf of bread was my daily allowance. But, I was lean my whole life.

5-7h bike rides
I did many 5+ hour bike rides taking just water and electrolytes.

Two weeks before UMFL I forgot to take my nutrition on my long-ish run. I said to myself - well, it is what it is... I did 30 miles on Clermont hills just on water and electrolytes. I was waiting for the moment when I'd bonk but that moment never came.

My motivation to switch to ketogenic diet had two main parts:
- I was curious and wanted to learn from my own experience
- I felt really bad taking 250-300Cal/h from gels and other sources of carbs while racing - there is no way that was/is healthy

Boki
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [boki] [ In reply to ]
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boki wrote:
Dev,

Thank you very much.

I was on a high carb diet almost whole my life. Part of my family is from Italy so, carbs were in my diet by default. A whole loaf of bread was my daily allowance. But, I was lean my whole life.

5-7h bike rides
I did many 5+ hour bike rides taking just water and electrolytes.

Two weeks before UMFL I forgot to take my nutrition on my long-ish run. I said to myself - well, it is what it is... I did 30 miles on Clermont hills just on water and electrolytes. I was waiting for the moment when I'd bonk but that moment never came.

My motivation to switch to ketogenic diet had two main parts:
- I was curious and wanted to learn from my own experience
- I felt really bad taking 250-300Cal/h from gels and other sources of carbs while racing - there is no way that was/is healthy

Boki

Interesting point about the 25-300 cals per hour from gels etc not being healthy. I never realized it, but as I have not raced for ~2 years now, I've only had gatorade or sports drinks a few times, and in general no nutrition that you can buy in a bike or tri store has entered my body for that time. I just realized this when you said it. Before that, I would never use gels or any sports nutrition in training, just on race day, but I raced around 10x per year so plenty of "practice" and plenty of opportunity to kind of mess up my body with bad quality nutrition. In any case, I did not really have a chance to see the impact of higher "good fat" on my endurance other than that 5 days in France doing long rides every day. In any case, I will try to increase my evening good fat and good protein intake and see if it reduces the desire to snack between 8pm and midnight!
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I love these studies.

A hflc diet helped me from a ~9.40 Ish athlete and 4.30 70.3 to 4.15 and 9.08. Trust me with life issues at the time it had nothing to do with training.

How to hit the harder sessions? Bring in some good carbs. White rice for lunch to hit a arvo session but coat it in good fats ie coconut cream. Sweet Potato with dinner for a hard morning session. ~100g carbs a day keeps me ticking over well enough to hit any session and any really high end stuff I can have a swig of tailwind.

Raceday you bring the carbs back in and watch the performance go to the next level. A thing that I was not capable of training high carb.

The 40g per day they talk about is what I did in the adaption period where you back right off training. 2-6 weeks depending on each individual. Of course performance will drop your body is switching energy systems.

Happy to be told it doesn't work. Won't stop me doing what I am doing.

Anyone that is half curious though get in touch with Peter Defty. That guy puts people on the right track. Less than 50g carbs per day that some keto groups recomend is for BOP if you're mop or fop don't try and do it alone it's much easier with the help of an expert.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet. Not Good For Athletes [Brett runs] [ In reply to ]
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Did your performance gains have anything to do with you losing excess weight? Were the gains on the same or similar courses?

leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com
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