Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Joined the masters swim team
Quote | Reply
After many years of sucking at swimming, I finally got tired of this shit and joined a local masters swim team. It confirmed a few things:

1. I need to get pushed by the other swimmers when working out.
2. I am squarely a MOPer swimmer (can do 10x100 leaving on 1:35 but barely).
3. Swimming is hard when you start in your late 30s. 3 times per week with these guys is as hard as 50 miles per week of running.
4. Should have done that years ago.

There you have it.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As a subpar swimmer that didn't learn until 30's, how was their attitude towards you knowing that you were not as fast as them?
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A few tips I've learned over the years in Masters:

1. Ask the coaches to review your stroke. Most coaches won't give you tips unless you ask. Small adjustments go a long way in making swimming feel better.
2. Don't push to move lanes. The overall yardage increase and pacing will make you a better swimmer.
3. Before you move to the 1:30 lane, lead the 1:35 lane. Once you are comfortable doing that you'll be able to move over easily. When I say lead I mean lead with no toys.
4. Learn to use the clock. If they have it positioned correctly the clock is your best pacing tool. Much like checking your 400 split on the track, you can check your 50 split and know in the first 50 seconds if you are swimming too fast for the prescribed set or too slow.
5. Just be consistent. Personally I don't feel in shape as a triathlete until I'm comfortably swimming. This mean's I'm leading the 1:30 and using it as a workout rather than barely making the intervals. The only way that happens is through consistency.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [ironcode] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lotsa snubbing of course from the faster lanes, but who cares. I am there to learn. I used to get the same snubbing from the roadies until I figured out how to hang with them.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
alex_korr wrote:
Lotsa snubbing of course from the faster lanes, but who cares. I am there to learn. I used to get the same snubbing from the roadies until I figured out how to hang with them.

I'm snubbing you right now...

but seriously, I like it when coaches can make lanes leaving on different intervals feel like they're on the same team, working together to get through a set. That's often accomplished during mid-d to distance sets with everyone on the same send-offs but just doing a 25, 50 or 75 more or less. Creating that sort of team atmosphere that transcends lane-hierarchy goes a long way in keeping Masters attendance numbers up.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
alex_korr wrote:
After many years of sucking at swimming, I finally got tired of this shit and joined a local masters swim team. It confirmed a few things:

1. I need to get pushed by the other swimmers when working out.
2. I am squarely a MOPer swimmer (can do 10x100 leaving on 1:35 but barely).
3. Swimming is hard when you start in your late 30s. 3 times per week with these guys is as hard as 50 miles per week of running.
4. Should have done that years ago.

There you have it.

Glad you have had a good experience. We seem to be similar paced swimmers and I have been swimming masters for over two year across two different programs. I actually think it is has been a huge waste of time. Here are my reasons:

1) Coaches are used to teaching youth or some segment that cant absorb 5 pieces of stroke advice at once. With a golf background I know first hand you can only focus on maybe two things at once
2) Coaches seem to not focus on the technique improvements that are most important for ows triathletes. I had one say she really wanted me to focus on not being a lazy flip turner.. give me a break
3) Masters has different themes for the days, "im day, sprint day, med distance", etc. but it seemed to be quite random. If you happen to show up at IM day you are stuck doing fly drills for an hour.
4) Masters basically does the opposite of every single thing that Gerry Rodriguez preaches on Tower 26 for triathletes
5) Not enough good old fashion 5x300 on interval, way too much broken sets full of nonsense

I have reached the point that i swim in the lanes next to my masters group but do not participate in the workouts. I am aware I don't know everything, but I do know i need to do a healthy combination of short hard intervals, and longer sets that include mixing speeds, etc.

i also may be a bit bitter. In the last two years my volume and frequency has gone up over 50%, and my times and percentile ranking have regressed rather dramatically
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is an easy answer to all of that... talk to the coach and let them know what you'd like to see...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
alex_korr wrote:
After many years of sucking at swimming, I finally got tired of this shit and joined a local masters swim team. It confirmed a few things:

1. I need to get pushed by the other swimmers when working out.
2. I am squarely a MOPer swimmer (can do 10x100 leaving on 1:35 but barely).
3. Swimming is hard when you start in your late 30s. 3 times per week with these guys is as hard as 50 miles per week of running.
4. Should have done that years ago.

There you have it.

I'm snubbing you too...

;-)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
There is an easy answer to all of that... talk to the coach and let them know what you'd like to see...

communicated that to two coaches across two programs.

add that to the fact that for most of the other swimmers are there for a splash and giggle (even crazy fast people, are partially there to socialize)..

anyways, i realize i am in the minority with my masters experience... i certainly wish it was not the case
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fair enough. it isn't for everyone, and not all masters programs are run the same way.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm also dead honest when I say the masters programs i've been to (6 different ones in LA and SF) have been lower yield to me compared to solo workouts when considering bang for buck for time:workout.

My gripes are similar, but recurrent in all of them:

- NO stroke instruction. Ok, correction, I saw plenty of stroke correction when total noob that was so green that she looked like she was gonna drown showed up, and had to swim in a lane separate from the masters pool - she got her moneys worth for sure. But to everyone else, from slow to fast, minimal instruction, and the advice I got frankly sucked. Further reinforced my belief that power in swimming is massively understated.

- I don't fit well with the 4-stroke workouts. My backstroke is so freaking slow and I look like I'm drowning in butterfly. I know the fish here to say HTFU and learn the dang strokes, but I've tried, and it's not easy as "spend 3 weeks on it and you're good" - it took me 2 years just to go from 2:20 to 1:45 on freestyle, and more years to go to 1:25, so I'm not lying when i say progress in those other strokes is not far off in terms of slow acquisition. I have a huge gap between my freestyle and other stroke speed.

- Too much darn rest in most of these masters workouts, due to the variability in speeds between lanes as well as people in the lane. I think on average, a third of the time in each of these masters classes i've been to is waiting at the wall. I definitely get more swim 'TSS' on my own than these masters swims if I'm seeding myself in the correct lane. It's not unusual for me to swim 30' more after a masters just to get the needed arm beatdown I'm used to. (Again, I'm not a speedster fish, so more often than not I'm held back in volume by the slower lane I'm in - the top lanes get more volume but I can't swim as fast as them.)


I'm not all hater though - there are def really good things that if my masters group had, I'd go to them for:
- Masters is great for hammerfest intervals, competition style. I def HTFU more on all-out 50s and 25s in masters than I do on my own.
- Definitely more FUN than swimming solo. If I had unlimited time, I'd just do the masters for fun, and supplement my own swim volume/workouts to get the volume I need and want. Unfortunately, I can't spend 60 mins in a masters pool for the equivalent of 40 mins or less of real freestyle swimming, not even including the travel time.
- If I found a masters group that was an ideal match to my abilities, I'm sure I'd be more motivated than on my own and it would be more fun. Alas, it seems surprisingly tough to do that - and I consider myself squarely in the MOP of bulk of triathletes; I'm not some outlier that's hard to fit in.
Last edited by: lightheir: Jul 20, 17 7:44
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [milkman1982] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
milkman1982 wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
There is an easy answer to all of that... talk to the coach and let them know what you'd like to see...


communicated that to two coaches across two programs.

add that to the fact that for most of the other swimmers are there for a splash and giggle (even crazy fast people, are partially there to socialize)..

anyways, i realize i am in the minority with my masters experience... i certainly wish it was not the case

this is the problem with masters swimming (at least, some of the masters swimming that i've experienced in 2 fairly large programs): the "swimmers" are mostly there to check their workout box for the day/week. many don't really seem to be interested in actually getting faster or improving to a meaningful degree. even if they're training for a ''meet'' they're mostly just sandbagging sets and blowing away the last intervals to look down haughtily on the lowly triathletes who evenly pace a set and do it "right." mostly, triathletes are there to IMPROVE. masters swimmers are there to splash and giggle.
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Lotsa snubbing of course from the faster lanes, but who cares. I am there to learn. I used to get the same snubbing from the roadies until I figured out how to hang with them.

Being snubbed then figuring out how to hang with the fast/good folks is the secret to athletic success in any sport. That minute to minute drive to improve is what makes training in a group so powerful and especially in swimming were constant feedback is so important to developing improvement in abilities.
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [STP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
STP wrote:
Quote:
Lotsa snubbing of course from the faster lanes, but who cares. I am there to learn. I used to get the same snubbing from the roadies until I figured out how to hang with them.


Being snubbed then figuring out how to hang with the fast/good folks is the secret to athletic success in any sport. That minute to minute drive to improve is what makes training in a group so powerful and especially in swimming were constant feedback is so important to developing improvement in abilities.

I'm surprised at the snubbing. Despite my gripes of masters swim and roadie cyclists, one common theme I've encountered in all of them is being welcomed to the faster ranks. It's pretty similar when the masters coach bumps me up 2 lanes (happens a lot thanks to my terrible backstroke!) or when I have a good day on the short hillclimb where burst power is important (I can leg press a lot - genetics) and a bunch of Cat1s who normally drop my like a rock over distance give me unanticipated props at the top.

Doesn't mean they'll slow down for me though - for sure, they're gonna go extra hard to prove to me who's top dog!
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As a former swimmer who spend most of my career in the fast lane, it is not snubbing. People look at who is in front of them, not who is behind them. Plus, whenever you come into a new group, it takes a while to get chummy with everyone.

Finally, if the folks around you do not have the blank "1000 yard stare" for much of the workout, you need to find a more serious program, so being "snubbed" by oxygen deprived half dead folks is actually a good thing in a group workout setting ;-) I remember quite a few 2 hour workouts with some of the closest friends I have ever had where the number of words spoken between all of us could be counted on one hand.
Last edited by: STP: Jul 20, 17 8:40
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ditto!
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [STP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
STP wrote:
As a former swimmer who spend most of my career in the fast lane, it is not snubbing. People look at who is in front of them, not who is behind them. Plus, whenever you come into a new group, it takes a while to get chummy with everyone.

Finally, if the folks around you do not have the blank "1000 yard stare" for much of the workout, you need to find a more serious program, so being "snubbed" by oxygen deprived half dead folks is actually a good thing in a group workout setting ;-) I remember quite a few 2 hour workouts with some of the closest friends I have ever had where the number of words spoken between all of us could be counted on one hand.

You've got a chatty group....

in college, we had a core group who came to morning practices regularly (not everyone had an equal level of commitment to the team). The unwritten, unspoken rule was that no-one ever talked in morning practice, because it was just too damned early. Every once in a while we'd get someone show up who usually only came to the PM practice, and they'd think it was OK to actually talk and be all perky. Grrr.....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't know what kind of masters group you guys go to, but that ain't my group. People are in the water warming up from 5:30-6:00 but at 6am, every single lane is dead on serious about the workout. It's one hour of hardcore workouts. The masters coach gives us the same workout (condensed due to time and well we are adults) as he does his high school team. We have stroke days on Tuesdays/Thursdays but it's not mandatory.

I swim 4x a week and it's the best thing I ever did. I'm not a FOP yet (I can do 100s on 1:30s), but I do feel really good when I come out of the water.

I do hear you guys on the snubbing part. There are some swimmers that still won't acknowledge me, but I think that's because they're all old doctors who think they're just better than everyone else. We swim at a private school in Buckhead so you got snobs.
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Westminster/Killer Whales?
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [ibick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
haha. I plead the 5th
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SDJ wrote:
A few tips I've learned over the years in Masters:

1. Ask the coaches to review your stroke. Most coaches won't give you tips unless you ask. Small adjustments go a long way in making swimming feel better.
2. Don't push to move lanes. The overall yardage increase and pacing will make you a better swimmer.
3. Before you move to the 1:30 lane, lead the 1:35 lane. Once you are comfortable doing that you'll be able to move over easily. When I say lead I mean lead with no toys.
4. Learn to use the clock. If they have it positioned correctly the clock is your best pacing tool. Much like checking your 400 split on the track, you can check your 50 split and know in the first 50 seconds if you are swimming too fast for the prescribed set or too slow.
5. Just be consistent. Personally I don't feel in shape as a triathlete until I'm comfortably swimming. This mean's I'm leading the 1:30 and using it as a workout rather than barely making the intervals. The only way that happens is through consistency.


X4 Especially the "no toys part." And consider limiting your use of neoprene jammers. At some point, you'll be in a no-wetsuit race, so best to learn proper body position without extra flotation.

Karen ST Concierge
Last edited by: STConcierge: Jul 20, 17 11:08
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good choice.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SDJ wrote:
A few tips I've learned over the years in Masters:

1. Ask the coaches to review your stroke. Most coaches won't give you tips unless you ask. Small adjustments go a long way in making swimming feel better.
2. Don't push to move lanes. The overall yardage increase and pacing will make you a better swimmer.
3. Before you move to the 1:30 lane, lead the 1:35 lane. Once you are comfortable doing that you'll be able to move over easily. When I say lead I mean lead with no toys.
4. Learn to use the clock. If they have it positioned correctly the clock is your best pacing tool. Much like checking your 400 split on the track, you can check your 50 split and know in the first 50 seconds if you are swimming too fast for the prescribed set or too slow.
5. Just be consistent. Personally I don't feel in shape as a triathlete until I'm comfortably swimming. This mean's I'm leading the 1:30 and using it as a workout rather than barely making the intervals. The only way that happens is through consistency.

I like #5. Means that you are leading the 1:30 lane at Ecke. Right on!!!!!

leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
STConcierge wrote:
SDJ wrote:
A few tips I've learned over the years in Masters:

1. Ask the coaches to review your stroke. Most coaches won't give you tips unless you ask. Small adjustments go a long way in making swimming feel better.
2. Don't push to move lanes. The overall yardage increase and pacing will make you a better swimmer.
3. Before you move to the 1:30 lane, lead the 1:35 lane. Once you are comfortable doing that you'll be able to move over easily. When I say lead I mean lead with no toys.
4. Learn to use the clock. If they have it positioned correctly the clock is your best pacing tool. Much like checking your 400 split on the track, you can check your 50 split and know in the first 50 seconds if you are swimming too fast for the prescribed set or too slow.
5. Just be consistent. Personally I don't feel in shape as a triathlete until I'm comfortably swimming. This mean's I'm leading the 1:30 and using it as a workout rather than barely making the intervals. The only way that happens is through consistency.


X4 Especially the "no toys part." And consider limiting your use of neoprene jammers. At some point, you'll be in a no-wetsuit race, so best to learn proper body position without extra flotation.

ahhh....c'mon.....you don't like my shorts? :)

leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com
Quote Reply
Re: Joined the masters swim team [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jumping in here with a masters question. I used to do masters and it had a wide range of abilities, but usually I could work my way up to the back of the fast lane. The lanes seemed to have a natural progression.

I started masters again here locally and there is a fast lane (former D1 swimmers (years ago) and recent D3 swimmers) then a huge drop off for all the other 5 lanes. In the second lane I am starting to lap folks on 200's. I have started swimming on the fast lanes intervals and am making it, but at an effort that far exceeds the intent of the workouts. For instance, we did a set of 100's (yds) on the 1:30. I was touching the wall anywhere from 1:15-1:18 while they were coming in around 1:04-1:08 and I assume all laughing as I thrash my way to the wall completely gassed.

My thought is to just keep fighting (Masters is only 2 days a week) and try to get faster, but not sure that is the smartest thing. I slow down a bit on my solo swims.

The other thing I notice is they really take a lot of time between sets. I tend to just rest long enough to see what's next then get after it. They will stand around for 2 or 3 minutes before hitting the next set. I always noticed this about the swimmers at my prior masters group as well. I would rather push through and get more yards in per hour, however maybe that is not the best practice.

Any thoughts? Recommendations?

"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
Quote Reply

Prev Next