Dunno. How long ago was this testing done? Which model Softride was tested? At first John said aero posts didn't work and later came back and said they do. His forum is down now so we can't ask him directly. The latest Softride testing makes the claim that their latest bike is is (take a breath) a full 82 seconds over 40 kms faster than a P3. I also read somewhere (could have been Cobb's forum) that the P2K was actually slightly faster than the P3. Now wouldn't that upset a few people if true. Who really knows.

The aero testing thing is definately confusing. :)

I wouldn't be surprised to see it less aero than a lot of more conventional stuff out there. All you have to do is look at the bizarre shape of the frame crossection, the weird double-round bit...and the lack of reasonable leading and trailing edge tapers. The lack of the seat tube and stays is probably the only reason it is competitive in the aero dept... I don't know about the seatpost itself, although I remember seeing some data once about seatposts.

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Don't know. The Titan Flex coasted downhill at 47 mph that my Yaqui coasted down at 45 mph, that my Talon coasted down at 46 mph. Going up the same hill, all go about 9 mph (when I'm pedalling them, anyway!) All results are within the limits of noise to one another. The only one that I can ride for 50+ miles and not have back pain? The Titan Flex. THAT is the reason I ride it. I've never had it out on the road with a trispoke and disc. Maybe tomorrow. I'm curious if a non-seattube bike does better with a disc than a seattubed bike. The results might just be within noise levels with my unsophisticated methods of testing, though.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I don't know how aero the bike is, but I do know it is the most comfortable bike I've every ridden by a wide margin. If you have back problems, get one.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I would guess it would be pretty aero, but that is not a reason to buy it. This is an old man's bike. It is designed for broken down, over the hill, old farts with back and crotch troubles.

I am evaluating one now and it seems to be a good match for me. I can't really say why though.

Don't doubt that Cobb really knows his stuff...but his published 'opinions' seem.... bought.

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Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

LOL!

I guess that's why Molina rides one. You'd be in good company.

I would own one right now but I wanted a longer wheelbase than the Titanflex offers. Several tri-clubmates have them and just love them.

Another 12-hour race in your future this year? This would be the bike for one of those...

I got the bike in order to do the 12 hour Sebring race, but I have to head out of town this weekend. It would have been a good test.

I am running some other tests and I will post in a few weeks.

Ashman wrote: I would own one right now but I wanted a longer wheelbase than the Titanflex offers.

Yep, I probably fit better on the medium 650 (which is the largest 650) based upon the front-center distance, but, the 700 size in the middle of the three 700 sizes IS long enough for me front-center for a triathlon bike. I'm 71 inches tall with a 33 inch inseam. But, I don't ride any steeper than 78 degrees...I seem to do best at 76 degrees anyway. Any steeper, and I'd have to go to the largest 650. Seems I remember you saying you ride at 81 degrees? I wouldn't want it any shorter, though. I'm able to ride it at pretty much full bore on rollers while in the aero position without problems...so, it's a good enough fit for me. I helped a buddy get sized on one, and he's a little shorter than me and fit on my bike decently...once the head tube is cut a little shorter (which Tom was so nicely able to do), it's going to be one sweet triathlon bike for him. Of course, as a road bike, the geometry seems about perfect...it's just that this design begs to be adjusted...it's so easy to do so...and you can get out of the good-handling envelope if you get too steep on a frame that's too short front-to-center.

Great bike. Like someone else said, it's like the Porsche of suspension bikes...especially if you ride it with a boom a little stiffer than the weight rating suggests you get at a given boom extension.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

That's right -- I'm really laid out over the front of the bike. At 6' tall, I just never liked the way any of my bikes have handled, so I went out and bought the longest front-center bike I could find that would still fit me. (Yaqui DE in size 55). It has the front-center of the largest sizes of QR or Cervelo and others. This is a case where I put fit and handling ahead of aerodynamics and other issues.

Ves is certainly "the Man" when it comes to custom-made bikes! Very nice person, to boot!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Testing would have been done around 1999. 'TTist' posted that he helped arrange for the testing (see: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...search_string;#42046). 1999 was also around the time that Tom started making the current monocoque design.

For those of us riding a TitanFlex, the aero results of the bike itself probably don't matter as much as the comfort. And that's not really any different than riders who choose a more upright position on the aero bars instead of a Bjorn-like position. (But it is nice to see windtunnel stuff saying that the bike isn't holding us back!)

Cheers,

Rob

I can tell you about this first hand. John called me in late 1999 saying that he needed to show Trek what frame drag levels they should target for Lance's time trial bike. John wanted to demonstrate that Softride wasn't the only slippery frame in production. (He knew about my design since 1993.)

For the sake of establishing base-line numbers a group of bikes were set up to fit Lance, but tested without him onboard.

John told me that when the TitanFlex was fitted with an aero seatpost, it's drag was virtually the same as the Softride (model unknown). A round seatpost extended to fit Lance's geometry introduced drag.

Since I wasn't funding the tests, I didn't expect any more detailed data. Nor did I expect John to publish anything on Trek's nickel.

My perspective as a cyclist and coach for 20 years is that a bike's drag is a fraction of the total drag created by its rider. For this reason I believe the holy grail of fast cycling is the "sweet spot" position that optimizes power production whilst minimizing drag--strength, flexibility and comfort being the constraining factors. The TitanFlex (and Softride) design addresses comfort. I believe the reduction of road vibrations permits a rider to sustain a more aerodynamic position. Strength and flexibility fall in the realm of training.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

I can tell you about this first hand.

Reason number one why this board is so cool. Awesome.

For the sake of establishing base-line numbers a group of bikes were set up to fit Lance, but tested without him onboard.

When you say tested without Lance onboard, do you mean with some other rider in his place, or that the bikes were tested sans rider?

My perspective as a cyclist and coach for 20 years is that a bike's drag is a fraction of the total drag created by its rider.

My perspective as a relative idiot is that you're exactly right about that.

Thanks for the response, Tom!

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

The reference bikes were tested without riders.

From Trek's standpoint they weren't interested in Lance's drag on a competitor's bike. They wanted to "value" John's aerodynamic tuning services. Maybe his compensation package had a "dollar per pound of drag" incentive.

The UCI has ruled out Trek's pursuit of their Y-Foil design as the ultimate aero/comfort answer for Lance.

Thank God the UCI has heretofore kept its nose out of triathlon.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Tests results state that a bike with a disc and without seatstays is more aero then a bike with disc and with seatstays. It has something to do with the air flow between the stays, or lack thereof, and the disc. You'll want the disc as far away from the seatstays as possible (if you have seatstays). Therefore a bike with seatstays should be using a flat disc. A bike without seatstays could be using a lenticular disc. I have NO idea why the pro using a bike with seatstays are using the Comete and the Ghibli which are lenticular instead of a Zipp which is flat!

Beam bikes rule (and are fast as hell)!!

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Paul

Thanks, Paul. I've been told by one person in the industry that compared to some of the deep dish wheels, the H3 isn't quite as aero on the some of the newest very close-legged front forks for a similar reason. Don't know if it's true, but, it seems possible in my very limited mind's eye view. FWIW, I'll have a flat disc in rear and an H3 on front with the newest version Easton Aero fork on my Titan Flex. I hope to take this setup for a spin tomorrow just to see how it feels on the road.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I'll be running an HED3 Carbon front with an HED 3D in the rear on my Zipp.

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Paul