Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown

Feb 7, 17 18:38

Post #1 of 64 (9735 views)

Sorry to change the protocol. But I felt that 100psi was more relevant to what people are riding on these days. So here's the data:

Conti SS (23c, new with slight crosshatch on both sides of smooth center tread) 25.1 mph, 77 watts, .00351
Vittoria Corsa Speed (23C, new) 25.3 mph, 71 watts, .00321
Spec. Turbo Cotton (24C, new) 25.2 mph, 83 watts, .00377
Conti TT (23c, new) 25.1 mph, 83 watts, .00378

Despite some differences in width, these tires all rolled out within a few mm of each other.

The Conti SS had a huge flat spot in it. Ka-bump, Ka-bump, Ka-bump. It was like riding on a chic-let. I thought my wheel had gone out of round. But all the other tires were nice and smooth. I have another SS that I'll probably try tomorrow. In fact, I may re-test them all at 120 psi. However, I note that the difference between the TT and the Corsa speed is similar to what I found in my last 120 psi test.

Again the Corsa Speed blows the others away. Does that minuscule ridge really cost 3 watts in aero drag? I wonder. It seems to me that the forum favorite -- the Turbo Cotton -- has a ridge too. If it's smaller, it's not by much....

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Last edited by: jens: Feb 7, 17 18:46

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 18:48

Post #2 of 64 (9703 views)

Jens:

Very nice. Thanks. Nice to have you back on the forum.

Could you clarify your test protocol?

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:02

Post #3 of 64 (9682 views)

Welcome back!

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:02

Post #4 of 64 (9681 views)

Was the Vittoria Corsa Speed 23 the TLR version with gray side walls?

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [RChung] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:03

Post #5 of 64 (9678 views)

RChung wrote:

Jens:

Very nice. Thanks. Nice to have you back on the forum.

Could you clarify your test protocol?

I made it a little more like Tom's: I ran each tire for 8 minutes as close to 25mph as possible (same gearing) and took the average of the power for the last 2 minutes. I use a set of rollers with the front wheel on a stand and the bike carefully positioned so that the rear wheel is precisely centered between the two rollers. This time, I tested at 62deg (about 10 deg lower than previous tests).

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:07

Post #6 of 64 (9670 views)

dkennison wrote:

Was the Vittoria Corsa Speed 23 the TLR version with gray side walls?

Yup. All tires were purchased in the last month or so.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:10

Post #7 of 64 (9662 views)

Did you have any issue mounting that tire?

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:14

Post #8 of 64 (9648 views)

dkennison wrote:

Did you have any issue mounting that tire?

Some: I managed to put it on the Jet+ Disc and take it off. I put a Conti TT on the same disc and I think it's going to stay on there. Frankly, I'm having a much harder time mounting all these tires. I'm not sure if the tolerances have changed or if I've just gotten old and weak....

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:30

Post #9 of 64 (9624 views)

Interesting you found - what I found. Its' not you. I bought 10 Vittoria Corsa 23 tires to test along with many others as I was considering using them on our PremierBike Tactical and had our assembly company mount a set in Taiwan on our wind tunnel test bike - based on the CCR results and the mounted width @ 100 psi with our wheels.

At the wind tunnel we had a front wheel latex tube flat and needed to change it. I was unable to get the tire off with normal fuss. Broke a few tire levers then pinched a tube getting it back on. I then asked the tunnel mechanics to help and we went through 4 tubes and could not make it happen. Tunnel time $$$ clock running. Finally tested with a different front wheel/tire combo.

Later I asked some friends to try and no one could get them on or off. I even thought that our wheels were out of standard. Then I tried a Continental GP 4000 II on our wheel and it went on like butter.

So - just a warning to others.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:33

Post #10 of 64 (9618 views)

when dan writes about the "friends" he asked to put on the vittoria, i'm one of them. i can pretty much put any tire on without any tools. this one? no way. partially maybe it was dan's rim. but jeebus, that tire, nope.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 19:48

Post #11 of 64 (9598 views)

Ok - so truth be told - Dan said "let me help you with that" .... and of course I deferred to the master :-) .....and then a few minutes later noticed a small bead of perspiration forming on his forehead as he attempted to work the tire on ....when smoke began to rise from his palms... I said "its probably the wheels" and we moved on to loftier matters.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 20:34

Post #12 of 64 (9533 views)

Cool. What rim did you test on, and did you measure the mounted width of each?

BTW, I should also have a Corsa Speed data point this weekend :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 20:36

Post #13 of 64 (9526 views)

...more importantly, how do you get a flat in a wind tunnel ? ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 20:57

Post #14 of 64 (9500 views)

Tom A. wrote:

...more importantly, how do you get a flat in a wind tunnel ? ;-)

I don't remember if I told you, but I got one too at the San Diego LSWT. It was the classic latex tube oozing around the bead problem. As you know, it can happen at any random time, if you don't mount the tire carefully. The explosion was really loud and I think a few people thought the tunnel broke.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Last edited by: jens: Feb 7, 17 21:05

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 17 21:23

Post #15 of 64 (9479 views)

Tom A. wrote:

Cool. What rim did you test on, and did you measure the mounted width of each?

BTW, I should also have a Corsa Speed data point this weekend :-)

It's very old semi-aero Powertap wheel. The outside rim width is 20mm. Didn't record the widths this time.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 5:39

Post #16 of 64 (9287 views)

dkennison wrote:

Was the Vittoria Corsa Speed 23 the TLR version with gray side walls?

They make them with a black sidewall too.

Thanks for testing these. This might be my new rear tire for tts this season.

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 5:56

Post #17 of 64 (9256 views)

dkennison wrote:

Did you have any issue mounting that tire?

I fit them to a training wheel twice with no tube, leaving them rest on the bead for as long as possible before I take them anywhere near a carbon wheel or tube.

Road side punctures in the rain in the middle of winter have brought me to tears......... yet I still use them, go figure.

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 6:09

Post #18 of 64 (9228 views)

We ended up using the Enve.

We did not get a flat in the tunnel, the latex tube would not re-inflate :-)

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 15:15

Post #19 of 64 (8988 views)

jens wrote:

Sorry to change the protocol. But I felt that 100psi was more relevant to what people are riding on these days.

It is. But then riding on little rollers isn't what we normally do either...;)

Quote:

Again the Corsa Speed blows the others away. Does that minuscule ridge really cost 3 watts in aero drag? I wonder. It seems to me that the forum favorite -- the Turbo Cotton -- has a ridge too. If it's smaller, it's not by much....

The Turbo Cotton sucks for aero also.

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 18:20

Post #20 of 64 (8864 views)

thanks for sharing, all fast tires but 1 seemingly significantly faster (though disappointingly only available in 23 whereas i prefer a 25)
can you clarify the tire setup - corsa tubeless or tubed? others with butyl or latex?

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [dkennison] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 18:25

Post #21 of 64 (8858 views)

I agree. I've only ran it tubeless but could only imagine destroying a tube trying to get it mounted.

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [pk1] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 18:33

Post #22 of 64 (8845 views)

So I re-did the test at 120 psi. This time I used a different Conti SS. The chiclet effect from the other tire was hurting my arse.

Conti TT 25.1 mph; 61 watts; .00277 width: 23.15;
Conti SS 25.2; 68 watts; .00309 width: 24.46 (!)
Vittoria CS 25.2 55 watts; .00250 width: 22.84

For whatever reason, the SS wasn't as bumpy. I don't know if was the pressure or just a better tire. Strangely the performance relative to the other two was actually worse. We may need to re-visit the theory that bumping up and down costs all kinds of energy.....

And I can't understand why the TT did so much better relative to the other two. For example, the difference to the CS narrowed from .00057 to .00027.

I ran all 3 with the same Michelin 18-20 latex tube.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Last edited by: jens: Feb 8, 17 18:34

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 19:16

Post #23 of 64 (8804 views)

Hello jens and All.

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...ria-corsa-speed-2016

Excerpt:

Road Bike Rolling Resistance ReviewsVittoriaCorsa Speed (open TLR)7.7 WVittoriaCorsa Speed (tubular)9.1 WContinentalGrand Prix TT9.9 WHutchinsonFusion 5 Galactik TL10.1 WSpecializedTurbo Cotton10.1 WMichelinPower Competition10.9 WSchwalbePro One Tubeless11.0 WContinentalGrand Prix Force II11.0 WBontragerR4 32011.5 WContinentalGrand Prix Attack II11.7 WSchwalbeOne Tubeless11.8 WVittoriaRubino Pro Speed11.9 WContinentalGrand Prix 4000S II12.2 WVittoriaCorsa G+ (open)12.2 WSchwalbeOne V-Guard12.3 WVittoriaCorsa G+ (tubular)12.3 W

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [nealhe] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 20:21

Post #24 of 64 (8761 views)

Don't forget you have to correct his numbers for non-tubeless tires by correcting for the butyl tube. IIRC, he used the Corsa in a tubeless configuration.

Re: Jens back on the rollers: Conti SS, Vittoria Corsa Speed, Turbo Cotton, Conti TT smackdown [jens] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 17 20:28

Post #25 of 64 (8753 views)

Jens, this is for one rear tire at what rider+bike weight and how much do you project for the front wheel. Would you assume a 60/40 weight distribution or 65/35?

Dev

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