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Is sub-3 in the cards?
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Never been much of a marathoner, but about a month ago my wife signed me up for CIM. I haven't run a marathon since 2004, but have been running and racing triathlons for two years. I can split 18 flat for an honest 5k run at the end of a sprint triathlon. Here's the complication, about 2 days after my wife signed us up, I got a pinched nerve (peroneal nerve on my fibular head). I believe I am recovered, but I have not done anything at all for the last 4 weeks, and now have a measly 8-9 weeks to get back into shape. Before the pinched nerve, I had about a full year of uninterrupted training (triathlon). Longest runs so far are around 15 miles (but it's been 6 weeks or so since my last long run), but for the last year I ran 10, 12 and 15 milers fairly regularly (nearly weekly).


Assuming I can stay healthy, run 6 days a week minimum, is there a reasonable chance for me to get into sub 3-hour shape in 8 or 9 weeks?
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like a bit of a stretch. Have you run any halfs in the past year? What type of weekly running volume can you put in between now and the race?

Running a fast 5K and a fast marathon are not quite the same thing.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like an awesome opportunity to get severely injured.

I've run half a dozen marathons. I think it's a huge mistake to go into one w/o proper training. You can fake a half, or even 15 miles or so. But, there's nothing like the last 10K of a marathon during a race effort.

I would either run the race at a training pace (perhaps w/ your wife?) with the intention to bail if things are going awry, or pass entirely. Be the best spectator for your wife on the block.

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [jenschaf] [ In reply to ]
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I ran a few half marathons with my wife this year (she's a bit of a stud though...she'll be gunning for 3:10). All on hilly courses, all at high altitude, all really easy effort-wise:

1:35 - http://www.landercommunityfoundation.org/...4#Course_Description
1:38 - Yellow Stone Half - http://www.yellowstonehalfmarathon.com/the-course/

I also have a 1:14 half PR, but this was back in 2006 or 2007.

I am hoping I can responsibly run 50 miles per week. I think any more would be a bit of a tough ask. Through Tri season, my volume ranged from 18-30.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [razorbacksteve] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think there's a better cheerleader in the world than I am for my wife, and I have been for a few years now. She's REALLY pressuring me to give it a go, but running it with her isn't exactly leisurely (she'll be shooting for 3:10, and has sub-3 potential as well).
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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Its the last 5 miles that will kill you but you may be able to get pretty close if you are disciplined with the opening half pace.

Without the weeks of volume I would aim for a 3:05 and hope that you are still feeling great at mile 21. at least that way you can gauge your effort see if you can hold on or just try and maintain and finish respectfully.

for your training I would gradually build your weekly volume over the next 6 weeks with a 21 miler by week 6. keeping the pace high at marathon +20 sec/mile. keep a longer repetition session once per week at threshold pace (ie. 6-8x1200 w/ 1' RI) and and focus on building volume at Z2 intensity on the other days. take one day off per week to recharge or cross train then execute your game plan on race day.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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I think a 3:10-ish sounds do-able for you with some solid mileage between now and then. Not saying sub 3 isn't possible for you, but this might not be the race for it. Maybe you could pace your wife to her sub-3:10?
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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Jumping one's run volume from 18-30 up to 50 like that also sounds like a good way to get injured. The wear and tear on my body from running just isn't comparable to any other training.

If you're wife's running for a 3:10...well, damn.

I dunno. I'm just really careful w/ run volume changes and marathons. I've seen too many friends make those mistakes and then be out of racing for the following year due to surgery required for a torn meniscus, or recovery from a stress fracture, etc. This level of caution has kept me injury free (knock on wood).

Nothing beats me up more than a race effort at an open marathon. Not century bike race efforts. Not half IM. Not even IM.

YMMV.

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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InWyo wrote:
I don't think there's a better cheerleader in the world than I am for my wife, and I have been for a few years now. She's REALLY pressuring me to give it a go, but running it with her isn't exactly leisurely (she'll be shooting for 3:10, and has sub-3 potential as well).

For the record, I didn't intend to imply otherwise. My apologies if that was conveyed.

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [razorbacksteve] [ In reply to ]
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Not at all. I actually have a lot of fun cheer leading. I've stayed up till 2 AM paining the road where it's closed and inaccessible so she still has little mantras to keep her going when my boys and I can't be yelling them. Unfortunatly, the boys sometimes get a little too much into it and start yelling stuff like, "Mom you're faster than all the boys!" Poor guys didn't need that rubbed in...
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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InWyo wrote:
Not at all. I actually have a lot of fun cheer leading. I've stayed up till 2 AM paining the road where it's closed and inaccessible so she still has little mantras to keep her going when my boys and I can't be yelling them. Unfortunatly, the boys sometimes get a little too much into it and start yelling stuff like, "Mom you're faster than all the boys!" Poor guys didn't need that rubbed in...

Bwhahahaha!

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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InWyo wrote:
I ran a few half marathons with my wife this year (she's a bit of a stud though...she'll be gunning for 3:10). All on hilly courses, all at high altitude, all really easy effort-wise:

1:35 - http://www.landercommunityfoundation.org/...4#Course_Description
1:38 - Yellow Stone Half - http://www.yellowstonehalfmarathon.com/the-course/

I also have a 1:14 half PR, but this was back in 2006 or 2007.

I am hoping I can responsibly run 50 miles per week. I think any more would be a bit of a tough ask. Through Tri season, my volume ranged from 18-30.

If you ran a stand alone 1:14 half and you have 9 weeks from today to get back into marathon shape then sure you got a chance. Do like you said run 6x per week and at least peak at 50 miles or build up to 50 miles min. Sub-3 well I guess it depends on the weather/course/blah blah....rushing marathon training and trying to go Sub-3 is a tough feat, not to say you can't do it.

Based on your wife's times, Sub 3 not in the cards for her this year though....

Enjoy the journey, I am running a Marry in about 4 weeks....
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [razorbacksteve] [ In reply to ]
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razorbacksteve wrote:
Jumping one's run volume from 18-30 up to 50 like that also sounds like a good way to get injured. The wear and tear on my body from running just isn't comparable to any other training.

There is a difference between a runner who's got a long history of very solid running being able to bounce back from a 4 week hiatus to someone who doesn't have those longer-term adaptations. I can't fault your caution, however. I too have had plenty of friends break themselves with running ambition. They also were the very ones that lacked the foundation to handle the stresses they were attempting. (They needed to train-to-train, so to speak)

That said, if I were the OP, I'd roll the volume (and through as much run frequency as one can afford) on pretty quickly (but at a much slower pace) and use these next 8-9 weeks to figure out just what he's capable of doing. Plenty of time to rebound fitness-wise, but requires paying close attention to how one feels during the build up. At this point, we just don't know what the OP is capable of.

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [Run For Money] [ In reply to ]
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My wife has a 1:26 half marathon PR on a flat course from just over a year ago. She's had no training interruptions for 3 years as well. I think the courses that she ran with me this year are actually close approximations to that performance.

Yellowstone is a trail half. Entirely on dirt with some rooted/grassy/rocky areas hovering just under 7,000 feet with a tough hill
The other has 700 feet of continuous climbing for 7 miles and is just under 6,000 feet as well.

She's got a bit of work to do for sub-3, but she's really close. Given a fast course, a good day, and if she were willing to take the risk and give it a go, she might do it, but you're right in that I can't confidently say she's there right now.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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CIM is fast. I'd say your wife has a solid shot. I guess if you can match her in the next 9 weeks of training, why not?
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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InWyo wrote:
My wife has a 1:26 half marathon PR on a flat course from just over a year ago. She's had no training interruptions for 3 years as well. I think the courses that she ran with me this year are actually close approximations to that performance.

Yellowstone is a trail half. Entirely on dirt with some rooted/grassy/rocky areas hovering just under 7,000 feet with a tough hill
The other has 700 feet of continuous climbing for 7 miles and is just under 6,000 feet as well.

She's got a bit of work to do for sub-3, but she's really close. Given a fast course, a good day, and if she were willing to take the risk and give it a go, she might do it, but you're right in that I can't confidently say she's there right now.

One way to find out...I am sure you have a few 20 milers in your training schedule for the marathon training. Why don't you and your wife go out at MP+30 and slowly descend until you are at MP at mile 15 and hold on to MP from mile 15-20. With the fatigue from the training week and the fatigue from the 15 miles that next 5 at MP should be a good test.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [Run For Money] [ In reply to ]
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the yasso 800 workout has always been a good indicator of marathon fitness for me.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [yoondaddy] [ In reply to ]
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yoondaddy wrote:
the yasso 800 workout has always been a good indicator of marathon fitness for me.

Agreed, but I find its an easy workout and doesn't show durability
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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Don't get hurt before the race. You have the talent and athletic base. Work in a few long (slow) runs in training so you know what it's like to be running past 2 hours.

Then just show up and try to be a hero on race day. I tried and failed last summer at the SF Marathon and ran the most painful 3:20 I could have designed. My brother went 2:58 with similar volume leading up (he did fewer longer runs and I did more shorter ones).

I would assume that 6:40 pace isn't that tough for you, so just run at that pace until you can't anymore. You'll put a few minutes in the bank so you can fade to 7:00 for the last 10k.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Oh and I think you'll do it. My prediction for you is 2:56.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I'll venture 2:58. 8-9 weeks is plenty of time with his background. Not like he's getting of the couch. A few weeks to build to 50 mpw, a few weeks there then a 2 week taper. He hasn't been crushing himself with 100mi weeks so he doesn't need a 3 week taper.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [dfroelich] [ In reply to ]
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dfroelich wrote:
CIM is fast. I'd say your wife has a solid shot. I guess if you can match her in the next 9 weeks of training, why not?

Unless it's not. Most years it is fast. My best was at CIM. Did it 3 years in a row and all were great weather. But, '12 was a mess. We're talking "real" rain not a few drops either. I live a block from the (about) 5k point.

with your historical half mary time you got a shot at sub 3. Pace that sucker perfect, hydrate, etc. CIM on a good year can make it feel like your watch is running slow.

Good luck, AND have fun.

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [denali2001] [ In reply to ]
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denali2001 wrote:
I'll venture 2:58. 8-9 weeks is plenty of time with his background. Not like he's getting of the couch. A few weeks to build to 50 mpw, a few weeks there then a 2 week taper. He hasn't been crushing himself with 100mi weeks so he doesn't need a 3 week taper.



This...I think that he and his wife have a shot at it.....my wife is a giod runner but we are not close enough to run together. I am kind of envious of the OPs situation. I would love to run a race with my wife and actually see her after the start.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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My sweetheart is in a position that everyone envies. She's never been the most talented in therms of speed, but she's always been fairly quick. What her REAL talent is would be her durability. She's never had to take more than a couple days off running. Even through 2 pregnancies. She's been running for 18 years, with a good 13 of those years probably average 50 miles per week, and has never had an injury. She just keeps getting faster little by little and keeps chipping away, but doesn't get greedy. Her first marathon was 3:30 and change, and now she's thinking the 3:10 barrier is reasonable, and she's exceptionally disciplined so she'll stick to that.

It is something to envy. She sees me bundle up to go for a run when its 16 bellow, and she knows. There's time she sets aside every day to train, and I do the same for her. We can't both stick to a very strict schedule, there has to be a bit of ebb and flow to our plans, but we always get in what we need. Vacations are also events.
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Re: Is sub-3 in the cards? [InWyo] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think that it's a stretch at all... 8 weeks is plenty of time to get back at it given your history. If you've done a 1:14 HM, you should have little problem with a sub three.

Broke my second metatarsal and was in a boot last year for 8 weeks. had 6 weeks to go from 0 miles per week until Kona and ran a 3:15 or so. Open Mary pr is 2:48. 8 weeks is enough if you are healed.

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