at the end of the day its your money :)...there are pros and cons. I had a good coach, but due to the weakness of the AUS $ i had to stop as the coach was US. You have had your coach for 3 years, so i assume you have got the gist of what works and what doesnt, how to approach an offseason, how to taper etc. If your confident of all of that and dont need the accountability then maybe its time to go on your own? Sounds like your a bit stale with it all?

Probably not. But I'm cheap and enjoy experimenting with my own training so what do I know!?

Yes I think he taught me too much.

For most, paying any coach, IMO, is a waste of money. Even many Pro's do not have them.

But if having a coach gets one off their duff to train, then I guess it might be worth it.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I disagree completely if a person truly wants to perform better once the initial performance gains have been achieved from just running and biking a lot. It also depends on the person's background. If someone is coming from a competitive running or swimming background then a coach may not help much.

Most people don't understand or even want to take the time to understand the science and data. For me, that is what the coach is for. Interpret my performance day in and day out and make adjustments as we go. I do like to analyse the data and communicate with my coach on what it means so I expect diminishing returns as I learn more and eventually I will not need the coach anymore.

If all you are getting from the online coach is a weekly plan and no communication / explanation on different options and what it all means....find a different coach.

It is expensive so it is a value judgement for the individual. I for one don't go out drinking or play golf so I spend the money on a coach.

I am in a position where paying for a coach is not possible so if I had the money then maybe I could see it differently, however I think for the most part coaching isn't particularly valuable for myself. I agree that after some point of the initial gains if you do not understand the science and smaller things it might helpful to have someone that does.

On the other hand, I ran cross country/track in college. When I switched to triathlon I became a student way before I became an athlete. I would guess that the first year I probably spent more time reading books, picking experienced triathletes' brains, watching videos more than I spent training. Also, it sounds like you are already answering your own question for yourself, but just looking for verification. Nothing wrong with that either. You know the fundamentals of triathlon and how to train. I would bet that anything else you need to know you can figure out on your own, through ST, asking another triathlete, or a bit of reading. Just my $.02.

I had a conversation about coaching the other day with a fellow triathlete and I concluded with this: I have a cousin who plays golf obsessively and he's very good. Like me with triathlon, he sets up trips/vacation time/where he lives around golf. He goes to the driving range or plays nearly every day. Sometimes he'll play 2x a day. And he's never had a coach. He's not a professional or anything, but will win amateur tournaments. He does it because he loves it, and I believe that I fall into the same category. Think about how many golfers there are who are very good, but do not have any coaching. Or think about how many great runners there are, but do not have coaches. Think about lots of other athletic hobbies that your friends do; do they have coaches? One could argue masters swimmers have coaches, but I would venture to say that most (not all) of those people aren't paying for a coach - they are paying to be able to swim with a group and have access to a pool at a private. Why is triathlon different from other sports in the amateur industry?

Believe it not, I myself as a coach would consider that a success.

While I've only been coaching for 4 years and don't have years and years to pull from, in my coaching program and statistic studies they find that its rare an athlete stays on with a personal trainer or coach for more than 5 years. This is because the personal trainer or coach has done such a great job and the individual is now self-sufficient.

You can think of this as the 5 steps of behavioral change. (pre-contemplation, contemplation, motivation, doing, self-sufficient at doing). Your coach has taken you from level 3 to level 5.

Yes the goal of a coach and a business is to retain clients, increase results, etc... but the bigger picture here is that coaches are teaching individuals about correct methods and effective training. While there isn't a national mission, I'm sure it would include the words of developing athletes to be the best they can be.

So I would have to disagree that "he taught you too much". I simply think he did his job.

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I am actually agreeing with you (maybe not saying it very well).

You come from a running background so you have that experience of what structured training does to / for you. A coach is much less valuable when you already have that knowledge.

Your golf analogy I also agree with, your friend is able to be quite good based on playing A LOT and self study but if he wanted to eek out just a little more, would a professional coach help ? Maybe that little extra would be worth it to your friend and maybe it wouldn't, that is the value judgement.

In my case, I came from a baseball background and ZERO competitive running, biking, swimming. So I didn't even know what and "interval" was when I started. I do read everything I can and put the time in self study but having a good coach sure is shortening the learning curve for me. For me, the value judgement is it is worth it, for now.

Most people I know with triathlon coaches would be better off getting a dietitian and a membership to weight watchers. Seriously, if you want to get faster, focus first in losing fat and getting a body composition suited to the sport. Afterwards if you want to optimize your performance, then get a coach.

Totally agree.

So many think they can buy their way to speed, rather than hard work. When I see folks training numbers ahead of mine in strava all year long, then I know they are serious.

I just always wonder why these folks say you have to have a coach do not have all their folks on the podium at all races.

I guess us lifestyle athletes are just losers. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Not higher level pros. Sure there are exceptions, but the vast majority are working with a coach in some capacity. As a former self-coached lone wolf know-it-all, hiring a coach was easily the best money I've spent.

In response to the OP, the value of a coach isn't just in the plan they write, but also in holding you accountable to actual follow it. I could approximate the schedule my coach writes most of the time, but there's no way I'd execute it as precisely if he wasn't looking over my shoulder.

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The losers are the ones that troll around with BS statements like yours. Having a coach has nothing to do with trying to avoid hard work. Training more than an unemployed guy with no kids at home also isn't relevant to anything.

How did your coach handle your training this year to avoid injuries? Sounds like you came up lame at the end of the year because you didn't gradually get back into training. Do you think that maybe a coach could've helped with that??? Or how about your bike splits not improving after 10years? Personally, I'd fire your coach.

Don't underestimate the value of an objective observer. Someone to ask the right questions and help guide you to discover what your body needs to perform at its best. Knowing when to push and when to hold back is the biggest difference when you are on the knife edge as a pro. Knowing the difference between good fatigue and dangerous fatigue is hard for many to sort out on their own.

I need to pay someone to hold me accountable? One cannot do this themselves? Do they also pay a person to make sure they get in the car to go to work?

If someone has to pay a person to get them off the coach, great. But as one poster said, they would probably have a better return on their money getting someone
to only allow them to eat so much food per day to lose weight.

So now that you have a coach, do you win all your races?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

see my signature.....I qualified for Boston using a 3 hour marathon program I googled in less than two minutes.

I'm not poo pooing the efficacy of a good coach, but no one knows their own limits and what works and what doesn't like the individual themselves. Do your own research, trial and error, learning as much as possible can be just as successful. I would recommend joining a good tri-club or team over forking over thousands for one specific coach.

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"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"

Tip #2 in the article below:

http://www.stickybottle.com/...ou-a-better-cyclist/

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Hiring a good coach isn't a waste of money, hiring the bad one is :) And coach that works with too many athletes and therefore hasn't enough time to pay attention to you is also the bad one.

Triathlon world is specific, not te insult anyone. When you look at world best swimmers, lets say olympic final folks, most of them have 2-3 coaches for 20 years of their career, at least in my part of the world. In triathlon you have lots of over-motivated people that always looking for the competitive advantage not having the patience or mastering the basics. On the other hand we have lots of bad triathlon coaches/coaching business employees, at least in my part of the world. That makes the research and finding the perfect coach for you one of the most important parts of the process. Then be patient and enjoy the ride :)

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Not to put words in Cody's mouth, but I'm pretty sure he holds himself accountable. What happens in real life sports, at any level, is that the athlete can fool themselves into thinking they did more than they actually did, or thinking that they did less than they actually did.

A good coach is a reality check. I think that's what he's getting at.

That said, in the context of the OP, a good coach gives personal attention to the athlete, observes and makes recommendations on observation. That seems difficult to do online.

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It is a different argument if we are talking about elite level Olympic and world champions. Triathlon is definitely different in that there are very few national team programs. I'd attribute that to the start of triathlon from a group of random athletes instead of a structured sport based in schools and clubs. In swimming you join a swim club as a young kid and work up through clubs and schools. Makes sense that you only have a handful of coaches in an elite swimmers career. Triathlon doesn't have a structure like that, so people go off on their own and work with any coach or squad they feel like.

Anyway, that is quite off topic here. Yes, bad coaches are not worth paying and are likely making you slower and less interested in the sport. Good coaches are worth it.

I think you need to expand your view of personal attention and observation. A good coach can gain a lot by talking to someone and reviewing training data. It is just a different type of coaching. For some it doesn't work, for others it is much better than having a local coach that sees them all the time.

This ^

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"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"

Please look up strawman arguments. You are a master of them.

Also, can you list the pros that are self coached, should be easy since you obviously know most pro athletes in triathlon...

I am not saying for some, a GOOD coach is very positive. But most coaches I know really are just baby sitters to folks who I guess have extra money and not enough motivation to exercise on their own.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I didn't say impossible. Just difficult. There is a hierarchy of communication methods.

An email exchange is better than "here's a training plan, do it"

A phone call is better, conveys more information, than an email

Seeing someone in person conveys more information than a phone call.

Watching them train conveys more information than talking to them about their training.

Also, I've never heard of anyone saying that an online coach is better than an in-person coach, given equal experience, etc.

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Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly