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Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread[mill]??
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https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ected-treadmill.html

It looks like it, just a belt that doesn’t have the holes between the slats. Otherwise, that’s a Woodway body and belt system.

If so, $4k with the monitor and system is a very good deal for a brand new Woodway Treadmill... even without that fancy monitor.

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milesthedog on strava
Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 13, 18 5:10
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread[mill]?? [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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I'm intrigued as well, but this part of DC's review is alarming:

"But here’s the thing I quickly realized: Walking on it at 2-3MPH was very different than running on it at 8MPH. At 2-3MPH it mostly felt like a normal treadmill. Whereas at 8MPH it felt like running on broken tiles. It was a bizarre sensation. With the slat-design, each of the 59 individual slats is going to move slightly differently, so it doesn’t feel like running on a cohesive road.
I wouldn’t really describe any part of the running speed portion as desirable, at least for the short few hundred meters I ran. Perhaps like anything else, I’d get used to it over time. That’s 110% a possibility. But it was just a bizarre sensation, which again, the closest I can compare it to is like running across broken bathroom tiles. It certainly didn’t feel anything like running outdoors."
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I saw that and I don't get it.

What about the belt design is different enough from a Woodway belt to warrant the different sensation? I'd start there. Because, while I really trust DCR, his statement seems incredibly odd, especially the part about the slats moving at different speeds. How would that be the case on the Peleton, but not on a Woodway?

The real question is, was Ray's perception biased by the visual of the slat design? He commented that he's run on a Woodway 7 years ago, so while it's possible to assume Ray's perception of the slats isn't the issue, I'm still not convinced that his visual perception wasn't the source of some sort of sensory bias.

The belt design is definitely a departure from the Woodway design in terms of the slats not being connected on a Woodway. Is the source of Ray's perception that connecting of the slats?

My issue is that I feel that if Ray is going to rail against the price so many times in a single article, he should be comparing the Tread to a Woodway, discussing where the Tread departs from the Woodway, and maybe try to identify that broken tile sensation; again, because he's railing against the price, I guess I feel there's a extra degree of scrutiny to be placed on his criticism.

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milesthedog on strava
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My Woodway surely does not feel like that. It looks to me that Peloton just copied that Woodway look and called it research.



lightheir wrote:
I'm intrigued as well, but this part of DC's review is alarming:

"But here’s the thing I quickly realized: Walking on it at 2-3MPH was very different than running on it at 8MPH. At 2-3MPH it mostly felt like a normal treadmill. Whereas at 8MPH it felt like running on broken tiles. It was a bizarre sensation. With the slat-design, each of the 59 individual slats is going to move slightly differently, so it doesn’t feel like running on a cohesive road.
I wouldn’t really describe any part of the running speed portion as desirable, at least for the short few hundred meters I ran. Perhaps like anything else, I’d get used to it over time. That’s 110% a possibility. But it was just a bizarre sensation, which again, the closest I can compare it to is like running across broken bathroom tiles. It certainly didn’t feel anything like running outdoors."
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
My Woodway surely does not feel like that. It looks to me that Peloton just copied that Woodway look and called it research.

I ran on a woodway once and it was like running on angels...

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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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DCR does not really elaborate exactly what he means by that "broken tile" comparison. What if the Tread slats are not as rigid as Woodway's? If they flexed more, then it would create an odd, uneven sensation with each step if the edges of the slats with most of your weight were depressed below the adjacent slats.
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread[mill]?? [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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There does seem to be enough margin at a $4k price point for there to be a layer and the "moving tiles" was possibly a cheeky, and maybe not such a good way, around Woodway's patents. This is not to mention cannibalizing their own sales to the home market.

Woodway won a judgement a few months ago against Trueform for the curved belt, so I hope Peloton's patent attorney did his homework if they aren't partnered, hence my hunch above. Although, perhaps their patents are expired for the deck members.
Last edited by: ktm520: Jan 13, 18 8:20
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I'm intrigued as well, but this part of DC's review is alarming:

"But here’s the thing I quickly realized: Walking on it at 2-3MPH was very different than running on it at 8MPH. At 2-3MPH it mostly felt like a normal treadmill. Whereas at 8MPH it felt like running on broken tiles. It was a bizarre sensation. With the slat-design, each of the 59 individual slats is going to move slightly differently, so it doesn’t feel like running on a cohesive road.
I wouldn’t really describe any part of the running speed portion as desirable, at least for the short few hundred meters I ran. Perhaps like anything else, I’d get used to it over time. That’s 110% a possibility. But it was just a bizarre sensation, which again, the closest I can compare it to is like running across broken bathroom tiles. It certainly didn’t feel anything like running outdoors."


And you should be alarmed before you buy the Peloton treadmill. At my job, we got 7 "Woodway copycat" curved treadmills made by the Italian firm TechnoGym. At $7,000 with NO motor, I would have expected them to all but do the running for you. They are hideous to run on because of their highly unnatural feel. Nobody likes them, except for the purpose of super-high intensity intervals.

I strongly encourage you to walk or run on the Peloton before you buy. What you pay for on the Woodway is the ride, not the electronics.

Wag More, Bark Less
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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I've been logging a lot of miles on the woodway especially with the record cold weather here in Chicago. I absolutely love it. The best way I can describe the feeling is that it's like running on a track, which I have logged a decent amount of miles on when I ran track in HS.

Sounds like the peloton is a poor copycat.
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread[mill]?? [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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My hunch is that the treadmill is being made by Technogym.

https://www.technogym.com/us/skillrun.html

I ran on a pre-production version of the above treadmill at the Lifetime Chicago expo last summer and it felt like DCR's description. My Woodway Desmo does not feel like that at all. Honestly, my Woodway feels like running on a freshly laid rubber track.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
I saw that and I don't get it.

What about the belt design is different enough from a Woodway belt to warrant the different sensation? I'd start there. Because, while I really trust DCR, his statement seems incredibly odd, especially the part about the slats moving at different speeds. How would that be the case on the Peleton, but not on a Woodway?

The real question is, was Ray's perception biased by the visual of the slat design? He commented that he's run on a Woodway 7 years ago, so while it's possible to assume Ray's perception of the slats isn't the issue, I'm still not convinced that his visual perception wasn't the source of some sort of sensory bias.

The belt design is definitely a departure from the Woodway design in terms of the slats not being connected on a Woodway. Is the source of Ray's perception that connecting of the slats?

My issue is that I feel that if Ray is going to rail against the price so many times in a single article, he should be comparing the Tread to a Woodway, discussing where the Tread departs from the Woodway, and maybe try to identify that broken tile sensation; again, because he's railing against the price, I guess I feel there's a extra degree of scrutiny to be placed on his criticism.

Here's my suspicion from running on the Technogym treadmill which I suspect is the company making the Peloton treadmill: I *think* that Technogym is using one-piece slats formed from a high strength plastic with a rubber coating to form the belt. The slats also aren't as long (front to back) and there are more of them vs a Woodway. Woodway treadmills have two-piece slats with steel providing the structure and then relatively soft rubber "plugging in" to form the portion your foot lands on. This two-piece construction, combined with the longer slats, is what allows the Woodway to feel more secure yet softer under foot.

Another consideration is that the frame of Woodways (at least my Desmo) is monstrously over-built. It's a joke honestly. The Technogym treadmill had a frame that seemed similar in build strength to a treadmill you might buy from Dick's for $1,500: not bad but not something that could hold the weight of a cement truck.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, so not a Woodway... and not worth $4k

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milesthedog on strava
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, looks like a classic Ray Maker opinion piece dressed up with a few pseudo facts. Contrast his piece with this: "The Peloton tread has dozens of ball bearings underneath its belt, which a product manager told me was for smoothness. Layered on top are rubberized slats, which give the treadmill belt a nice, springy feel."

But this also sounds like absolute bullshit, coming from the mouth of the Peloton CEO: "Foley said that the company is selling the treadmill at cost, something that sources have told me is the case with the Peloton bike as well. The company makes money off its $39-per-month subscription service, then, and not the equipment, but I’m not sure knowing that makes it any easier to swallow the price."

I have a hard time believing this company is running the hardware side at cost. And if they are, maybe it's not such a bad deal.
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
My hunch is that the treadmill is being made by Technogym.

https://www.technogym.com/us/skillrun.html

Holy shit that’s expensive. I guess if the company that makes their treadmills sells their models for over $15k then maybe Peleton is selling theirs at cost.

Matt
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:

I have a hard time believing this company is running the hardware side at cost. And if they are, maybe it's not such a bad deal.

I’ve heard a lot of good things about the peloton platform, users I know like it. However, it’s the platform they like, the bikes themselves I’ve heard seem a bit on the cheap side. At $2k, I agree that I have a hard time believing that’s their cost unless they’re selling them through a shell company or some such. It’s a steel frame with a flywheel, a power meter and a 15” tablet. How could that cost $2k at wholesale? I’m sure the first one cost some bucks on the software side but that’s long since paid off.

If I were a betting man, I’d guess the treadmill would be equivalent to a mid level consumer device. I highly doubt it’s anything like a woodway for durability. They’re probably spending their money on flashy things like the side pocket and a big screen, not under the hood stuff like a beastly frame or excellent motor. Most consumers won’t care though. If they can make treadmill workouts fun they’ll sell a pile of them.
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Yeah, looks like a classic Ray Maker opinion piece dressed up with a few pseudo facts. Contrast his piece with this: "The Peloton tread has dozens of ball bearings underneath its belt, which a product manager told me was for smoothness. Layered on top are rubberized slats, which give the treadmill belt a nice, springy feel."

But this also sounds like absolute bullshit, coming from the mouth of the Peloton CEO: "Foley said that the company is selling the treadmill at cost, something that sources have told me is the case with the Peloton bike as well. The company makes money off its $39-per-month subscription service, then, and not the equipment, but I’m not sure knowing that makes it any easier to swallow the price."

I have a hard time believing this company is running the hardware side at cost. And if they are, maybe it's not such a bad deal.

Not hard to believe at all. It’s just like the companies giving you a blood glucose monitor for free so you have to buy their testing strips.
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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I’ll bet when Peleton says at-cost, they’re referring to the cost they are paying to Technogym, with Technogym making out pretty well, as I’d imagine did the maker of try Peleton spin bike. Seems it would be in Peleton’s interest to preorder a boat load, drive cost down, and open up their platform to more people if Peleton isn’t profiting from the hardware sales.

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milesthedog on strava
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Yeah, looks like a classic Ray Maker opinion piece dressed up with a few pseudo facts. Contrast his piece with this: "The Peloton tread has dozens of ball bearings underneath its belt, which a product manager told me was for smoothness. Layered on top are rubberized slats, which give the treadmill belt a nice, springy feel."

But this also sounds like absolute bullshit, coming from the mouth of the Peloton CEO: "Foley said that the company is selling the treadmill at cost, something that sources have told me is the case with the Peloton bike as well. The company makes money off its $39-per-month subscription service, then, and not the equipment, but I’m not sure knowing that makes it any easier to swallow the price."

I have a hard time believing this company is running the hardware side at cost. And if they are, maybe it's not such a bad deal.

Yup, it's opinion - I actually ran on it and it felt pretty wonky. Just to clarify, when you ran on it, what'd it feel like?

Not sure why you're all hung up. It is what it is. They weren't allowing much anyone at CES to run on them, but I managed to convince them to briefly let me try increasing the speed. Everyone else was told to stay at a walking pace (where it felt just fine).

There's plenty of facts in there, but as noted in the post it was rather short due to their constraints. It's not a review. Still, can you clarify which ones are pseudo facts here? I'd like to get them corrected if so.


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Is Woodway making the Peloton Tread [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
The belt design is definitely a departure from the Woodway design in terms of the slats not being connected on a Woodway. Is the source of Ray's perception that connecting of the slats?

Before I started running on it, the slat design never crossed my mind as even a potential source of an issue. I simply wanted to try running on it purely from a speed responsiveness standpoint.

Given I ran on a treadmill just the night before, I'm pretty aware of how treadmills feel. And this didn't feel anything like it (remotely like it). Perhaps if I ran on it for an hour, it might feel better/different/whatever.

My comments on price are important, not because of whether or not it feels funky, but because it cost $4,000 flippin dollars for a treadmill that you still pay $40/month for. At that price point you'd typically see higher speeds and a stronger motor, not here though.

The problem here is that folks are trying to tie Peloton's design to some existing company (i.e. Woodway). But there's no logical reason on earth that Woodway would build a treadmill for a 3rd party company at half the retail cost of their own product. Especially when said product is compelling enough in its digital platform that they'll likely never buy a Woodway product again (ignoring the slat thing for a second). Furthermore, given that Peloton has made clear ambitions for other gym products, that'd also cut into Woodway's profits.


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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