i hope you don't mind i changed your link to our story. we took a few minutes longer to get our story up, because we decided to interview the triequal folks, getting their comment, before publishing.

also, we included the difference between the old and new start times in kona, to show what did actually get changed. and, of course, to mention that the long-honored 17hr course cut off is now 16:50. not opining. just noting.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Boise used to late start, seemed most athletes didn't mind other than the possible heat difference racing later in the day.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

Score one for TriEqual here. If I'm reading that right, the 25 minute gap between the pro women and the age group men at Kona that they wanted is being implemented.

No problem at all Dan. I'm obviously much happier to link your article, as you usually have much more research and content.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

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i don't think anybody had any issue, in concept, with the start times TriEqual advocated for. the consideration was the impact on other stakeholders. could you make the pro women's race better for them without making it worse for others? others would be volunteers, those in the local community, specifically police, motorists, business owners, and then of course the other athletes (pro men who'd have to start earlier, AGers who'd have to start later).

the only particularly badly affected cohort are the 65+, 70+, and older AGers in kona. was the midnight cut-off an imperative? what bad thing happens if we run to 12:10am? i don't know.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I want every race to start at noon. Not everyone in the world rolls out of bed at 4:30 am.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

By the way for 70.3 WC, 10 min between Pro Women and M35-39 is not enough. Jimmy and crew should push the entire age group field back another 10 minutes. It won't affect anything for the age groupers.

Also 5 min between waves at 70.3 WC is not enough. 5 minute means the 28 min swimmers in one wave catch the 33 min guys in the other wave. They all ride equally fast, or the 30 min guys catch the 35 min guys. If I look at my wave in M50-54, if I can swim and transition well enough to catch the 33-34 min guys in 45-49, then I have big leg up sitting at legal distance with younger guys over other guys in my age group. Then we get to the big climb and suddenly I have a huge gap and I can put my power to weight to work and hopefully even catch the back of 40-44. This is not right. I think you need 8 min between waves so that this is not an option for the fast swimming guys in the older age groups catching younger bike legs in front of them out of T1.

You know, I get so sick of one group or the other saying something's not fair! BullSh**! At this point I'm all for going with one mass start! Jesus, get over it folks….life is not fair either. Do the race for the purity of racing head to head.

"It won't affect anything for the age groupers."

there are more than the contestants to consider.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I have heard, but don't know so I am asking, that it is a "race" to 17:00 where closest one wins. Anyhow, why does 17:00 matter? Is there any thing more to it than tradition?

Me personally - I'm not a fan of the late start. The later in the day I race, the more potential there is for something to get thrown off. Not only that, with a 7am start for a Half - you still have all afternoon to do other things - whatever that may be. With a late start - such as noon - that means you finish at 4-5 pm and your day is consumed by your race - similar to what it is for a full.

Plus the heat of the day has more of an impact.

After Kona last year I got a message from an Ironman official asking about the swim. They were especially interested in how I felt the start impacted the fast age group women. They asked when & where I was passed and by how many women. They obviously cared about how the separated start impacted the race and whether it needed to be adjusted.
I'm glad to see that they have made additional adjustments to improve the start for the age group women.

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

That;s your opinion. I started Boise around 2pm and it was fantastic!

A mass start in 70.3 would be far from head to head racing....it would simply be a big peloton bigger than what already happens.

Hey, I am just making a point that guys swimming slower than my range will be at a disadvantage with the 5 min spacing since 28-30 min swimmers will be able to pace of younger legs. I'm not quite 30 min, but with my transition, I am in the mix with the 30 min guys. Also the 29-31 min swimmers get faster in a championship field because they are not pulling water solo like in a smaller race. They end up swimming with 20-30 other guys and immediately catching younger guys who swam slower by T2....then you get a large group for faster swimming guys from the older wave with younger legs who swim slow.....then you wonder why you get these clumps of riders...it's not rocket science. 5 minutes does not work. You need 8 as a minimum.

If you went mass start at 70.3 WC, you might as well cancel the bike leg, just make it swim-run Same thing at ITU World's.

I get a late start fro all, but waiting that long after the first wave…… Kind of like Chicago tri. Wait all day in the sun until you get to go. Not a fan.

"Anyhow, why does 17:00 matter? Is there any thing more to it than tradition?"

the older you get, the more it matters. it's very tough for somebody 70 or 75 years old to do the race at all, let alone in 17hr. that extra 10min might not sound like a lot, but when you're out on the run and you have to run the last half-mary in 2:50 instead of 3hr, and you're on pace for a 2:52, it means a lot. there are a lot of folks in those AGs, men and women, struggling hard to make it in under 17hr.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

We did just that for years. People USED to have enough scruples to play by the rules and not draft. All these groups want this, and that, and when all's said and done, someone will be bitching. Get over it. Sometimes we need to race for the only important one…ourselves.

The late start time in Austria is really awesome if you fly in from North America and want to burn less vacation days and arrive 2 days before the race. Now you don't have to worry about Jetlag....noon start is basically equal to 6 am EDT!!! Win! A 7 am start is like doing a race in your REM sleep period! In terms of waiting around it is the same as any race. Go check your bike in and then go somewhere and relax....could be your hotel, could be a local cafe, could be under a tree with your headphones....as long as they don't corral you up for 2 hours waiting then it "should" be OK.

Dev ... no need to move the entire race back 10min ... all they need to do is start a female AG first and its a non issue. Vineman 70.3 has done this for years before anyone started complaining, and to this day it is a 100% non issue. In fact they alternate for the most part womens & mens waves (at 6min intervals) I.E.
Pro Men
Pro Women
+6 min - Women 40-42
+6 min - Women 43-44
+6 min - Men 40-41
+6 min - Men 42
+6 min - Men 43-44

... spread out, first AG of men is at 18min to pro females ... pro men & women have there race with no overlap ... then the AG'ers tstart to trickle across the finish line.

As I said before this has been likely going on for 8+ years, and it works

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

One thing I miss from racing in Europe are the decent start times. Typically, sprints are done around 4pm, OD around 2pm, Halfs 11am-12pm, and IM, as late as 8.30am (Almere) and as early as middle of the night (Norseman).
I'm not really sure it would suck actually. For Honu for instance, if you start at 7am, you run around 10am or so. It's hot and humid. At 3pm, it's hot and humid. For most races it doesn't make much difference, except that you get to sleep in.

It's 6 minutes, which is a bit better than 5. I think it would be impossible to avoid any overlap. At Zell I would not be at all worried about the late start because it will not be hot.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Yep, Vineman races are great about how they deal with swim starts.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Oh, I completely agree with you on that! I would absolutely love racing at those times, as I'm not an earlybird at all. I just think waiting around for 2 hours before one starts is quite a pain.

Totally agree with this. Great way to burn some mental energy.