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Ironman and the Bar Exam

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HoyaLawya

Jul 5, 12 18:05

Post #1 of 54 (2853 views)

Ironman and the Bar Exam	Quote \| Reply

Title says it all. Next year, I'll be graduating from law school and will be taking the July Bar Exam. I'd also like to do an Ironman, but I don't want to have it get in the way of my prep. Am I going to be limited to early/late season races, or is it possible to juggle the two? Ideally, I'd do Ironman US Champs next year, but with the August race date it seems particularly problematic...

I'd love some input from anyone who has tried to do anything remotely similar. Thanks!

And yes, before the jokes start, despite the handle I am not yet a lawyer.

michael travis

Jul 5, 12 18:17

Post #2 of 54 (2813 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My girlfriend recently did an IM while taking two of the 4 CPA tests. I haven't compared the two, but I know they are both said to be quite difficult. She did this while working as an auditor at a fairly large CPA firm, during tax season, so she was pretty busy. I do not know your personal situation or starting base as far as training. We have no kids, and she was starting with a good base, but I think if you want to do both there is no reason why you couldn't.

Oh, also she is a recreational athlete and was not competing for a top spot, she is a solid MOPer, so that may be taken into account as well.

Whatever you decide, best of luck on your bar exam.

Mike

Rebcos

Jul 5, 12 18:34

Post #3 of 54 (2772 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [michael travis] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You can easily do it. Studying for the bar is difficult, but not as hard as having a normal job. You won't study 8 hours a day. Just get the multistate book and work all the questions.

emacfarl

Jul 5, 12 18:59

Post #4 of 54 (2735 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Judging by your handle I'm assuming you're a Georgetown student. You should have no problem doing an IM while studying for the bar. A 2-3 hour training session in the middle of the day will be a nice break from studying, anyhow.
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JSA

Jul 5, 12 19:14

Post #5 of 54 (2692 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Seriously? I worked 40+ hours per week while preparing for the bar exam and I am dumb as shit. Hell, I went to law school after graduating from Purdue School of Engineering b/c I wasn't smart enough to be an engineer, so, I looked for something easy. You should be chastised mercilessly if you are unable to train for an Ironman and pass the bar.
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renolaw

Jul 5, 12 19:15

Post #6 of 54 (2687 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

If you juggle, make sure that you don't race until at least a few weeks after the exam. You can fit in training but the exam is mentally exhausting. Give yourself a few weeks after to recover mentally. I raced the week after the bar and was a disaster, completely mentally done.

It also depends which bar you're taking... not all are equal...

JSA

Jul 5, 12 19:20

Post #7 of 54 (2669 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [renolaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

renolaw wrote:

Obviously, you did not drink enough. See, studying law is like doing math: the more you do, the more brain cells you generate. When you cram for the bar, you generate too many brain cells, which compact in your head and cause fatigue. Drinking kills brain cells. But, the weak ones die first. So, if you drink HEAVILY, and I mean you really give it, you can balance it out. You do not suffer from head swelling, you kill the weak brain cells, and, overall, you end up smarter.
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SPROSCIA

Jul 5, 12 19:22

Post #8 of 54 (2661 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You might have to give up ST though...The bar and IM okay... The bar, IM and ST not enough time :)

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HoyaLawya

Jul 5, 12 19:30

Post #9 of 54 (2636 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [prosh8905] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks for all the responses guys. Yes, I go to GULC and I'll be taking the NY bar exam. I'm actually surprised by how positive the reaction has been. I had assumed that the idea of an ironman anywhere near the bar exam would be completely idiotic.

Would taking an official bar review course affect the calculus? That would put me in class all day plus whatever studying I'd do outside the course.

I figured that with 3L being a relatively light year, I could build a massive base during the academic year so that it wouldn't be a huge problem if I tone it down during the final weeks before the bar exam.

BurgherRoo

Jul 5, 12 19:36

Post #10 of 54 (2618 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [emacfarl] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I've taken two different bar exams since 2006 (one after I finished my JD, the next when I got a job in a different state with no reciprocity), but both were in "easy" states, i.e., MBE plus a couple of additional state specific areas of law for the essays. I think I could have managed IM training, but it would have required some careful scheduling. I really think the answer depends on the jurisdiction, and if you're someone who can force yourself to sit down and study when necessary. If you're taking a really tough bar, like California, it will be pretty hard. You will have to show up for BarBri and actually study when you tell yourself you will study.

JSA

Jul 5, 12 19:37

Post #11 of 54 (2615 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

All day? Do they offer all day bar prep classes now? Really?

Check it again. I took a bar review course and it was 3 hours (maybe 4) per day for 3 weeks. Seriously, I worked 40+ hours per week at my law firm and that was simply b/c they paid me based on billable hours and I like money. I smoked the bar exam and was WAY over prepared for it.

My recommendation is to take a review course. The reason being, it teaches you how to take the bar exam. Look, the material is not difficult. You are going to Georgetown for gawd's sake, so, you obviously have brains. You know (or will know) the material. The reason the bar exam is difficult is b/c it is filled with "trick" questions. The bar review courses show you how to handle the bar questions. It also tells you the areas on which you should focus.

Take the review course. Train in the afternoon. Study a bit more at night. You will REALLY appreciate the mental break and being physically active will make you more mentally sharp. At least that is what works for me with my current practice.
_______________________________________________

�If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.� - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

(This post was edited by JSA on Jul 5, 12 19:38)

emacfarl

Jul 5, 12 19:39

Post #12 of 54 (2606 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BarBri is only half a day. They make it pretty damn easy to pass the test. Go to BarBri every day, go home, train, then review some flash cards while watching the tour.
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HoyaLawya

Jul 5, 12 19:44

Post #13 of 54 (2591 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [emacfarl] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Thanks all. Really helpful advice. I hadn't looked into the intricacies of bar review and had just been relying on what I'd heard from people. Half-day courses seem tailor-made for tri training since it'd give me the perfect study break before I do some review of my own.

jng

Jul 5, 12 20:00

Post #14 of 54 (2565 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

It depends...

Which bar are you taking? How good a law student were you? Have you taken all/most of the multistate/essay subjects? Most importantly, how many times are you willing to take the bar? If you are taking California or New York I would caution against preparing for IM and the bar exam simultaneously. As another poster wrote, not all bar exams are equal. However, if you are taking a bar exam where the pass rate is upwards of 85-90% then IM might be a possibility. If you were top 10% at a T15 you probably have the skills to rely on and will have more free time. In contrast, if you were more of a mediocre student or went to a second tier school you might want to focus on the bar. Another important factor to consider is whether you will be refreshing yourself with the multistate/essay subjects or will have to learn them from scratch. Haven't taken evidence, wills & trusts, con crim pro... pretty difficult to learn a number of new subjects while building your run for a marathon. Finally, having to take the bar multiple times is something to avoid at all costs. You don't want to have to explain to a hiring partner that while you didn't pass the bar your first time as a consolidation prize you almost qualified for IM Hawaii!

FWIW I took both the CPA and bar exam in a difficult state. Working, studying for the CPA exam, and mild/moderate training is possible (see above post). However, at least in my opinion and experience the bar exam was much more difficult than the CPA exam. Working while taking the bar exam should be avoided at all costs. Most people I knew that failed were working. Passing on your first try should be your main and only goal. My advice for the bar is to do exactly what BarBri or whatever prep company you choose to go with. If BarBri recommends IM training while studying for the bar then be my guest. Barbri preparation exercises and classes took me 55-65 hours a week. I had ~ one hour a day to run/exercise.

In summary, it's better to over prepare for the bar and pass than try to attempt both and fail. Good luck!

choochooexpress

Jul 5, 12 20:20

Post #15 of 54 (2539 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You can do it - finding a job as a lawyer will be harder than the bar exam/ironman combined!

BayAreaUser

Jul 5, 12 20:34

Post #16 of 54 (2522 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I would not do it.
Specially with the NY bar exam. I took the California one, which is supposed to be among the most difficult to pass, and I could not have kept the training load required to do an IM. True, I exercised about 2 hours everyday while I prepped, but that is not enough for an ironman. The last 3 weeks before the exam, after barbri sends you home, I spent every available hour I had prepping for the test. Trust me, you only want to take this once.

Also, take this into account. When you ask people on this site what they used to run in high school, 99% will say 4 minute miles. We all know that is not true.
Why expect them to give you a different response if you ask about the bar exam? I'm sure they will all say they finished in the top %10 of their class too.
Granted if you are taking the Florida, Oregon or Iowa's bar examination, then you pretty much don't even need to prep if you took the subjects in law school. NY, CA, and a couple others are a different story.

Good luck.

(This post was edited by BayAreaUser on Jul 5, 12 21:32)

JChapATX

Jul 5, 12 21:10

Post #17 of 54 (2466 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [BayAreaUser] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BayAreaUser wrote:

I exercised about 2 hours everyday while I prep, but that is not enough for an ironman.
Good luck.

you gotta be kidding me. i did IMCDA let year on 6 hrs a week. 14 hrs a week would've been ideal. You and the OP sound like typical 3Ls. Just relax.

All you gotta do is pass the bar, not ace it.

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JustinNorCal

Jul 5, 12 21:25

Post #18 of 54 (2446 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [BayAreaUser] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm with BayAreaUser, my wife is an attorney here in California and had to live and breath the BAR while studying for it. It will partly depend on what state you are studying in but if CA good luck, it's supposedly one of the most difficult in the nation.
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BayAreaUser

Jul 5, 12 21:29

Post #19 of 54 (2437 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [JChapATX] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

JChapATX wrote:

BayAreaUser wrote:

I exercised about 2 hours everyday while I prep, but that is not enough for an ironman.
Good luck.

you gotta be kidding me. i did IMCDA let year on 6 hrs a week. 14 hrs a week would've been ideal. You and the OP sound like typical 3Ls. Just relax.

All you gotta do is pass the bar, not ace it.

Perhaps I was not clear. I'm not taking about 2 hours of quality exercise. I was referring to a 2 hour window I had to exercise. That meant, from the moment I left Barbri until I started studying again (including shower, decompressing, eating lunch etc). So about 1 hour to run and/or swim, another hour to shower, eat, relax. Cycling was out of the question for all of July.

JChapATX, Which Bar did you take?

To the OP, I would listen to the advice of those who have taken the NY exam or similar degree of difficulty. CPAs or other Bar examinations are simply not comparable.
Good luck

(This post was edited by BayAreaUser on Jul 5, 12 21:35)

swimguy777

Jul 5, 12 21:42

Post #20 of 54 (2417 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

don't do it, you need to study. for some reason all the people on st dont want you to secure your future as a lawyer...get your priorities straight and don't unnecessarily overload your schedule. get the exam done, then worry about athletic endeavors. the bar exam isnt easy and the people who fail are the ones who underestimate it.

JChapATX

Jul 5, 12 21:43

Post #21 of 54 (2415 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [BayAreaUser] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

BayAreaUser wrote:

JChapATX, Which Bar did you take?

Good luck

texas - perhaps i misunderstood you, but i still think you can easily train 10 hrs a week while studying for the bar.

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jjcha

Jul 5, 12 22:31

Post #22 of 54 (2374 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [BayAreaUser] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Don't overstress the bar exam, esp. if youre taking a class. i can think of no better supplement to studying for the bar in class for 4 hours or so, plus maybe two to four hours tops of outside prep/study, than a bunch of 100 yard swim sets in the morning, some speed-work at the track or a nice long bike ride in the afternoon. any more studying seems counterproductive, at least to me.

look youre at GU. unless you suck at standardized tests youll be fine. in fact even if you do suck id advise getting a good 8 hours plus of sleep at night and two hours plus of training as being good study aids over freaking out about a simple test.

just wait til youre billing 2400 hours for biglaw. then you'll see what training you can get in.

for reference i passed the cal bar and went to a top 10 law school and am good at standardized tests.

less good at long distance tris.

(This post was edited by jjcha on Jul 5, 12 22:52)

TriSRV

Jul 5, 12 22:47

Post #23 of 54 (2337 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

On July 2nd I took the USMLE Step 1, which is the 8 hour long first licensing exam following the first two years of medical school, and on June 24th I raced Ironman Coeur d'Alene (note: none of this is intended as boasting, I'm just responding to your post). For reference on the magnitude of Step 1, since I don't know what's entailed in the bar exam, I studied 14 hours a day 5 weeks straight for it following completion of second year (with my only day off being the ironman). The Step 1 score is also extremely important for residency slots, so it's not even a Pass/Fail affair, but a test where it really matters how well you score. My time at IM CdA was quite modest, which reflects the level of training I could do during 2nd year, but I'm extremely glad I took it on. I don't feel that my test was negatively impacted, and Ironman only replaced an 8 hour long practice test I would've otherwise taken that day, so it also helped my mental stamina. Being married on top of that was actually the hardest part, as I couldn't ever take time to train, I had to integrate it with my studying (all rides but two were studying on the bike trainer, I listened to pathology audio while running). I did miss out on basically all of the 'cool event' and hype/atmosphere associated with ironman, since I had to drop off my bike then go back to studying, but it was an amazing experience.

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(This post was edited by TriSRV on Jul 5, 12 22:51)

Sparks

Jul 5, 12 22:48

Post #24 of 54 (2336 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I took the California bar exam straight out of law school, and I've done a few IMs. There's no way I could've done both at the same time without the outcome for both events being mediocre. I took the BarBri class and did only what they told me to do, plus an additional 100 multistate questions per day. My schedule was basically BarBri till noon each day. An hour for lunch and a little nap. Study till 5:30 (when my wife got home from work.) Took break until about 8, and then study till about 10. Repeat everyday M- F and a few hours each Sunday. Once BarBri ended, pretty much studied all day every day. I wanted to make sure I did everything I could do to pass the first time. And I did. There's just no way I could have fit in IM training. Maybe you could handle it. But be honest, and ask yourself if you'd really be giving the bar exam the level of attention that you need to give it if you really want to pass.

Mike Sparks

I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Quantum

Jul 5, 12 22:48

Post #25 of 54 (2335 views)

Re: Ironman and the Bar Exam [HoyaLawya] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I would say just make sure you can dedicate a lot to studying the last couple of weeks. Studying for the WA bar right now, and I'm on track with taking a class, but the two weeks prior to the test are going to the ultimate in cramming.

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