I think I've noticed what you mentioned. Out of curiosity, have you ever weighed yourself immediately before and after a hard swim workout? I'm wondering if you lose a lot of weight (most likely fluids and glycogen) like I do when swimming. I chalk it up to being fairly inefficient as a swimmer, thus needing more of my fuel stores to swim hard. Need those stores for running well too.

Wait! So, you're say that by increasing both intensity and duration in 1 discipline, your ability to have a quality session in another discipline wanes?

Weird. I bet it's just you that experiences this wholly unusual phenomenon.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Do you do a lot of kick sets or pull sets in your swim workouts? Are your swim workouts always in the morning?

I ask because I find that the more kick I include, the more my run suffers. Additionally, I find that based on scheduling I always swim in the morning so when I am in a swim-run block, my run is always later the same day or next day. This ultimately creates a situation where I am always swimming fresh and never running rested. Without knowing your schedule, if this is true of your schedule, you may want to experiment a bit so that you are swimming some sessions post hard runs and vice versa. I found this allowed me to feel fresh for key run sessions and key swim sessions.

Actuallly, it's never happened to me swim vs bike/run. Bike and run, of course, with the leg beatdown, but never with the swim, but I was too weak a swimmer to really pummel myself with volume until now. Never had this weird generalized fatigue before from swimming.

my guess is that it's just an adaptation phase to the increased quality. Make sure you're eating enough, and once you get used to the increased swim intensity the general fatigue will subside.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You usually have 2 things limiting you when training. 1) Muscle fatigue 2) energy systems. Swimming has a big energy cost, but does little to fatigue your legs. I actually think it helps my legs recover.

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TrainingBible Coaching
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I have had very negative experiences when I have tried to improve my running and swimming "fitness" at the same time.
(By fitness- I mean my ability to do fast 4-30 minute races).

I have had much greater success if I work on:
run fitness- swim speed
Run endurance-swim endurance
Run speed-swim speed
(Basically every combinations EXCEPT run fitness-swim fitness)

Also it really sucks when I have to run after swimming.
But especially when I t is hot, or I have done a long swim, or i am going to do a long run.

The reason is that the kicking position in swimming stretches your ankle ligaments, which reduces the elasticity, and thus the rebound. So you're working harder to run, the gait dynamics change, and your run suffers because of this.

Seen another way: when long-time runners start swimming, their ankle flexibility is terrible, and their kick is less efficient and thus the swim is terrible. While kick is not necessarily propulsive, it is stabilizing. Inefficient kick means less efficient swimming, even with a two-beat kick. Working on your kick makes you more efficient T swimming, but less elastic and efficient at running. My first few years of running after a lifetime of swimming were slow (quick recovery from ankle sprains, however). Back into the pool after 6 years of marathon, and my kick was awful.

It's a trade-off. Pull more. Do just enough kicking to get slightly more efficient in the pool. Unless your run is so strong that you can get a greater advantage from improving your swim than slowing slightly on the run. Point being that the swim is usually a proportionately short segment that can be improved by other factors (ie, wetsuit), while the run is a much longer part of your day.

I frequently have the same sensation. If I run after I bike, it's no problem. If I run after a swim, even a few hours later, I often feel like crap. I usually feel better a couple miles in, but never great. My experience is that taking those first clue miles pretty easy and not worrying about pace, helps a little bit.. If I try to fight through it, I usually suffer the entire run.

You're tired.

I get this and as someone else said, it is just that your body is tired and you're adapting to the higher-volume swimming. The incessant intensity of swimming takes a lot out of you :-) I get pretty wiped out when I do 20k / 50 mile weeks swim/run. It's normal.

Others mentioned eating enough; I would add drinking enough - I don't drink a lot in the pool at all, and dehydration can really affect performance.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

running and cycling hard affect how tired i am in the pool then just swimming hard. i find it much easier to swim hard whilst fatigued from swimming then i do when i am fatigued from running or cycling.

That is no surprise. You have one glycogen tank. Swimming cost is huge to the contrary of the popular belief here, it is not recovery work. If you swim that much, and incorporating the intensity as well, you know how to swim hard, than it is quite normal what you are experiencing. Swimming takes it's toll, no doubt.
The only thing different is no mechanical stress, otherwise it costs glycogen, same you would use for running.
And no, it does not recover my legs as I do kick.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I say the same thing about the glycogen tank to people about why they bonked 75 miles into the IM ride, and they never bonk even at 100 miles on training rides...the answer is..."how often do you swim moderately hard for 60- 90 min CONTINOUSLY without a break, then get on the bike and pedal continuously for 4 hours without a single break or coasting or drafting (some race venue are exempted from the drafting statement....). Oh now that you mention that, "I NEVER DO"....surprise surprise....as you said, "One glycogen tank!!!".

The poster sounds perplexed. Just trying to help. I guess I could have stated "your doing too much"

My reply to you was really just meant for the OP. You pretty much nailed it.

The OP is tired. It was obvious to you and it's obvious to me...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

absolutely, when tired, we something start over analysing everything and it s a good time for the coach to tap you in the back, tell you shut up and push you in the water for the next swim set.

the op is doing the right thing...challenging himself and he is getting the normal fatigue, nothing to be worrie about. it all come back to normal later! nothing wrong with over analysing either! we all go there at some point when tired!

I say keep the good work! I love hearing people taking swimming seriously!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Actually, I don't think it is accurate to say that we all have just "one glycogen tank", since actually we store glycogen in our muscles and in our liver; in effect we have several "tanks": swimming pull muscles tank, swim kick muscles tank, bike muscles tank, run muscles tank, etc, plus the all-purpose liver tank. The liver glycogen tank is the "one tank" I think you are talking about but Noakes in "The Lore of Running" cites studies from as far back as the 1960s which have conclusively demonstrated that our muscles preferentially use the fuel stored in the specific muscles used for running over the blood glucose provided by the liver, and of course the same applies for the swim and bike. As I understand it, the fuel in the liver can be quite easily replaced, and/or supplemented with blood glucose from calories we take in while training, but the fuel in the muscles can not be replaced except during rest periods, and IIRC the glycogen refueling of our muscles along with repair of muscle tissue proceeds fastest when we are asleep. The fact that the fuel in the muscles runs out is perhaps the major reason why we slow down; the calories taken during exercise can forestall the fatigue to some degree but the calories taken during exercise are not as easily used as the fuel stored right there in the muscles, and hence we slow dramatically.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."