interesting that you brought this up.

T shirt? I've got boxes full of 'em going back to the early 80's. I won't miss another one (same with finisher medal(s)).

Transition spot, that does make a difference to me but not enough to "pay early"

I like to wait until the last minute (well. maybe the week before) because, I'm more injury prone than I used to be and the 1 month cut-off for "refunds" isn't good enough. Injuries seem to come out of nowhere and I'm stupid enough to race through them - with results that I'm not satisfied with.

really, somebody with more guts than I have could negotiate a last minute entry on the basis of: "my entry is pure profit against the few who will inevitably be no show and you won't refund."

a real conundrum for RD's and their customers. I await the miracle solution!

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I would lean towards #2. Make people feel special with some kind of VIP treatment. Closer parking would be an incentive for some races I do (you may need a volunteer on race day to oversee the area).

I have had complaints from casual friends/racers about not getting a shirt at a race that says "sign up by Feb 1st to be guaranteed a shirt". They do, then at pickup they are all gone because there was nothing on the packet that said who got one and who didn't, and they ran out.

For me, it's pretty simple. The early entry discount is not high enough.

Let's take IMTX for example, which I am entered in. If you enter in Tier 1 you pay $650. If you wait until Tier 4 you pay 20% more, or $785. If I don't know my schedule that far in advance to commit, I will always wait and pay extra to avoid the slight possibility that I will have to take a much bigger hit to defer or cancel.

I think the discount would have to approach the cancellation penalty for me to enter in the first Tier, OR I will have to be 100% certain of my schedule, which I rarely am.

The mathematical way to look at it is expected value. If I think I have a 50% shot of having a personal or work conflict on race day, then I am expecting to lose the entry fee half the time. This is not even close to the $135 savings from entering early.

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Strava

Offer a full refund. I have spent so much in race fees over the years only to have "life happen" - injury, family illness, work conflict - that I no longer will pay early. I realize you will point out how that won't work and will be bad for the RDs and I get it. But without some ability to recoup the money for not racing, I pay at the very last minute when I am sure I can race. I am actually spending less on race fees now as a result, despite the higher price of right before the race.
John

Why is early registration important to the process. It seems like an experienced RD ought to be able to predict, within a few percentage points, the likely number of registrants in an established race. Does that need to be closer than say 10% to be a game changer for a RD?

And, if having price registrant counts is critical, how does significance escalate relative to race date. For example, knowing you will have 1,000 racers is probably not a big deal 1 year out, but knowing that 1 month out may be important. So, when does that become important on the calendar. Further, if 1 month (as an example) is a key date, how much of am impact is having 1,000 being your prediction when the actual count is either 900 or 1,100?

I have no real issue with the idea of the escalating fee.

But, as to why I personally don't take advantage of it...I am pretty much in the same boat as the above poster. I used to sign up early to "save" money, but then found with injuries, and other things that come up in life, I was forced to skip so many events that I wasn't actually saving anything. So, now, I generally sign up for a race much later in the process. But, sometimes, at that point in time, the escalated fee is so much that I just say, you know, I would rather do a group ride or workout on my own for free rather than spend $150 for a Sprint or Oly race.

I wouldn't say I "like" escalating fees for later entries, but I've always been willing to pay it for the flexibility. For most races I do, there's already a cut-off deadline for shirts/other-SWAG, and I've never begrudged an RD for that when I registered late and didn't get one.


Are stair-stepping fees as the entry deadline approaches really an issue? Is it really deterring that many people from entering? Or just the "glass half empty" folks who see it as a "penalty" instead of what it really is; a discount to those who commit early? And can you ever really please the glass-half-empty folks, anyway, or will they just find something else to be unhappy about?

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I'm in agreement with the sentiment of other replies - the hard no refund/transfer* policy means I won't sign up until I'm relatively certain I'll be on the start line. When it comes to local races you're talking about $10-50 additional fees by waiting as late as the week of and when the local sprint costs the better part of $100 it's a no brainer for an athlete with a job and family. Factor in the frequency of cancelled swims and bike courses not being locked down until a month out and it's pretty silly to register early as far as I'm concerned.

*I don't want refunds, I just want to be able to transfer or defer.

That being said I regularly register for 'series' (CX, MTB, Crit, Aquathlon, Run) in advance when the series cost is 80-90% of what day of fee's would be. Then it's an incentive for me to make it to x number of races in the series to "get my moneys worth" and if I miss a race or two oh well I'm supporting a local series.

In my case, a real discount is a big factor in early entry. I signed up in December for races this coming Sept and Nov because it was a true deal. WTC does not build in enough of a reason to enter early IMO. Why does a WTC 70.3 race cost from $275 to $375 when the USAT National Championships, in Miami can charge an early entry fee of $185? Having done the race, it is every bit as good as the WTC races, and an awesome venue where I can do a nice mini vacation and spend some time in South Beach. Airfare, air bnb makes it a very reasonable race. We have a local series that I always enter to support the local scene, even though I seldom do all. (7 races total). This year, individual race discounts but no series discount for the first time in a few years (Back Friday Sale). Result; they lost all my money as I didn't enter any. May do 2 as they come up, but my larger $$ is gone for them.
We also have a race in Wisco in Door County. It's a crazy popular race that usually sells out early. The one thing they DO have is a very generous transfer policy. Up until I believe 2 weeks out one can transfer entry which many people end up posting on FB. The race is waaaayyyyy too expensive IMO at the going rate, but the people who entered and end up injured, not trained, over their head end up selling in panic to get something back. I've never entered until 2 weeks out and have paid around 1/2 the full entry. The great thing about that is that the race entries are sold so the RD is not out, and the individuals take the hit, so race makes the same. With that logic, a very liberal transfer policy would really help those like me that are cheap but love the sport and racing....

The only way I'll ever sign up "early" is if I get a full refund. Period.

let us all remember you said this. i don't want to hear you ever complain about not enough interesting new races!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Conversely, liberal transfer policies would open the door to the potential for scalping and third-party profiteering on races that are perennially sold out.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

so, how about this. the price never changes. but if you sign up early you get substantially all of that value as lucky bucks toward anything else that RD offers, including that same race next year. So, let' say you pay $100 for a race. Here would be the bullet points:

- $100 paid 3 months prior to the race or earlier, you get 75 percent refunded upon request for any reason, or you get 95 percent granted as a value toward future events this RD produces
- $100 paid between 1 and 3 months prior to the race, those amounts decline to 50 and 70 percent respectively. same terms apply.
- $100 paid less than 1 month out from the race, use it or lose it.
- in all cases, refund must be requested at least 5 days prior to the race.

what about that? does that cheese you off? does that seem fair? would that cause you to enter early? how early?

or, how would you change this? note: the exercise here is to find the creative solution, that gets you to enter early while also giving the RD a reason to be confident in his turnout, so that he can plan accordingly.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I've seen it go more the other way than that scenario. This particular race I mentioned always seems out (except this for the first in years), and the transfers at the last minute go for far LESS than full rate. It's always a gamble and each person takes that. Your scenario sound like the current theme of WTC and tour operators buying up all the lodging and scalping that.....

What type of races are you referring to ?

I mostly do local sprints. Races used to cost ~$50 and you could sign up relatively close to race day if not race day. Now they are~$85-90 early registration, $120 + as the race nears. I'm not that into racing anymore where I'd sign up 10-12 months in advance. I'd do more races if it wasn't for the escalating entry as the race nears. I'd happily forgo shirt, swag whatever short of maybe water at the turn around point in the run.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

What has stopped me in the past has been injury. Namely that I signed up for races, got injured and couldn't race and was out a lot of cash.

If signing up early allowed me to get some partial refund or to defer my race entry to the next year or transfer my entry to someone else should I get injured (up to some threshold amount of time prior to the race.. say two weeks?) it would change my willingness to sign up early for those races I know I am intending to

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Team Every Man Jack

To me, it's just tacky period.

Example.....if Star Wars is coming out with Episode 9 in June 2019, you can buy your ticket for $15 in June 2018 or $20 in Jan 2019 or $30 in April 2019.

That's kind of what it feels like and how absurd it looks when a consumer sees that when a race does it.

It's a race entry, not an ebay auction.

The only thing I could see doing is tying up "swag" into an early sign up. The t-shirt or swag bag.

Sorry, just my opinion. You gotta make ends meet and I'm not in charge. But researching and finding a race that's 2 months out that you JUST found but realizing the pricing already tiered up by $20 to $50 more...........that's a crap feeling often resulting in non-participation.

This all sounds awful. Sorry.

There is a lot of ways to look at it because of how you want to price it. If the race is in May and you're charging the same amount in April as in January, I'll never ever pay before April unless I fear sellout. If you're charging less in January, then I'll pay IF I can get a FULL 100% refund 4 weeks before the race.

Lots of stipulations but the main thing is this... as a consumer, I'm willing to eat whatever the price increase is to wait and sign up until I KNOW I can compete. For instance, the Surf City Half Marathon is in 13 days and I still haven't signed up but I've planned to race since November. This is mainly because:

A) Never know if I'll get the training in.
B) Never know if I'll have to travel for work.
C) Never know if I'll change my mind.

So, yes, 100% refund or I'll likely never sign up early.

what difference does it make?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I do a fair amount of work with predictive analytics and process improvement. In my own experience, the races have about the same number of registrants year over year. So, if an experieced RD has seen this in the past, and compares past trends to current registration activity, they ought to be able to predict pretty closely to final participation.

But, I really asked because I am curious how much it matters and when it matters. It is hard to answer the questions about fee structures and other stuff without knowing that is most important to know 80% of the likely participants 1 month out, 3 months out, or six months out.

For folks that want a cancellation policy, have you ever thought about self insuring? By that. I mean putting an extra +/- 20% of all you race entry fees away in an account that you can draw on later if you cancel an event? Because a liberal cancellation policy isn't going to come without similar costs to the RD that he/she will have to pass along in a similarly higher base entry fee.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

but brentwoodtriguy says that's his preference. pay the extra money.

so, could you two guys get together and forge the solution?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am forced to enter late because I'm a self employed single full time dad. It's impossible for me to schedule half a year ahead. That's why I won't be racing any halves or wholes for the next few years.
But if a race would add preferred transitions, or other benefits that would give early registrants a race benefit, I would likely not do that race at all.
I'm fine with the price markup, I understand expenses need pre-funding. But if you start to offer benefits for the race itself, then you're unfairly interfering with the results, rather than an early funding bonus.

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NO