Yes he really sad that.
The question is said what?

Can you give an example of what is so offensive to you? As I did not notice anything other than an upfront honest engaging interview.
If you are speaking about the part where they talk about Sanders drug past so what. The Real Starky was right on when he said that that part of the interview might be controversial.

The actual Starky says whatever he thinks and that is what he thinks. I don't agree with it but he is entitled to his opinion.

The implication that Sanders past somehow makes him 'not feel pain' and that this is some sort of advantage for his training and racing.

Then again, perhaps you have a peer reviewed study showing that the comments are on the mark (with respect to prior abuse and subsequent training)?

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No. Like I said. I don't agree with his statement but he is entitled to it. Your title; "If Starky really said this, then. . . " seems a bit over done IMO.

So he thinks Sanders has some type of advantage because of past use. Maybe it makes him feel better if Sanders beats him to have a reason.

My response to starky would be, take some time off and do the type/quantity of drugs Lionel did and see where you end up!

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NCCP certified Comp coach

Following his very statement about the performance of those ahead of him in Kona (a lot of them), that's pretty lame frankly.
The guy is a phenomenal cyclist and athlete, but he probably needs to get a bit of a filter and acknowledge that some guys are
just better than he is, and some are definitely better suited for Kona than he is, instead of thinking he should just win Kona on
the bike. Starky, you ain't Kienle.

He really isn't entitled to it.
The statement was rude and damaging because other idiots have actually heard that and assume there is validity to it.

He has tarnished a guy's reputation who doesn't deserve it.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Wait a sec. I agree the Starky might have said something kind of dumb and over the line. I agree that some of the crap he says gets believed by those that might follow him and then the statement is perpetuated. It is kind of rude.

However, the statement has a partial truth to it, which is that drug use can cause nerve damage and drug use can impair the ability to feel, including pain. That being said, that doesn't make it an absolute truth for all drugs and all drug users. It also does not guarantee (most likely not) positive lasting athletic enhancements. So to use as an "excuse" is kind of dumb.

Regardless, I don't think we can blame Starky for tarnishing a drug users (or former drug users) reputation. I'm pretty sure that falls squarely on the shoulders of the (former) drug user.

Absolutely we can. The partial truth to his statement is the cornerstone of all bullshit. If there was no partial truth to it nobody would believe it.

Sanders isn't going faster today because of his past drug use, period. People who think he is are dumb.

Sanders didn't lie about his past drug use, it wasn't secret, it was already out there. For another pro to whine about it because Sanders is faster than him is even more pathetic than having used cocaine.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Is it Starky's job not to say anything that idiots can misconstrue? (Even in jest or to stir the pot, as I suspect about this particular statement?)

Similarly, is it your job to avoid talking about aero vs. weight on this forum -- because of all the idiots who choose to believe that weight matters more?

Lionel admitted to recreational drug abuse. Starky made a comment about that abuse which was probably ill-informed, but not slanderous or libelous under the law:

• It's debatable whether Lionel is a "public figure" given that the only population who knows of him AND heard the podcast probably comprises <10% of the members on this one particular forum.
• The majority of those people don't give a lick of credence to Starky's statement, so I'm not sure it's fair to say his reputation is tarnished. Look at this thread: Defending Lionel, discrediting Starky.
• In fact, there appears to be no more than 5 people who actually believe that it could be true, and to their credit, they seem to want some kind of peer-reviewed evidence before they burn Lionel at the stake.

In my limited legal understanding, I do think Starky was entitled to say it. Libel is one thing; general asshattery is another.

It is everybody's job not to say stupid shit.
Yes of course it isn't illegal for him to say stupid shit.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Nerves function for more then pain, they are used for proprioception , motor control etc. Do you believe that the drug use specifically damaged nociceptors and left all other important nervous function untouched?

Wait, let me write that down:

Zach's Mission Plan - Don't say dumb shit like it's my job.

Dude, guess I can plan to be fired then.....

Well, in general, yeah -- but he was being interviewed by the satirical version of himself for a podcast that contains many elements of absurdity.

It's the closest thing to comedy that triathlon has. The same people who don't understand TRS probably also don't understand The Colbert Report. But a lot of people find it humorous because they see it for what it is.

I love this. I don't currently have a sig/tag line but I'm thinking of using this.

LOL, please go back and re-read what I wrote.

I made no statement about his motor skills or any other nerve function. What I wrote is that drug use can damage nerves, therefore they can affect pain. They don't necessarily HAVE to permanently affect anything at all, but they CAN.

Regardless, this is more of a reaction to the statement that Mr Mott is trying to make that people that say silly shit are actually worse than someone that uses illegal substances. Which, I don't agree with.

My apologies. This topic has been floating around slowtwitch for a while, and it is absolutely asinine. Your partial truth is correct, chronic recreational drug use can cause lasting neurological effects.

He is absolutely entitled to his opinion......but not his own facts.

And just as he is entitled to his own opinion, so are we as "consumers" of the sport. My opinion is that Starky is an asshat.


true story that I'll just toss out there - a few months ago, I got a PM from someone that I did not know, who claimed to be a friend of Starky's. Told me how Starkly had a heart of gold and was such a great guy. He kinda took me to task over my opinions of Starky and asked why I was so harsh on the guy. Honestly, I was kinda taken aback. Is Starky that insecure that he needs his friends to send messages like this to people on the interwebs who don't have high opinions of him? What, are we in the 4th Grade?

I responded back to the guy, gave him my reasons why I held my opinion. I also offered to have Starky come out and ride with our training group since he is local to us. Never heard back from him.

I will note, however, that Starky did come to an Octoberfest beer tasting that was held at the shop in the middle of September, but it was unannounced that he would be there. This was about a week after the 70.3WC. FWIW, he was not on crutches and no one saw him with any visible sign of injury. Were I to turn Starky's logic around on him, I could say that his excuse about being on crutches for the 70.3 WC was complete bullschitt and he just wanted to avoid a beatdown at the hands of Javier and Frodo. But it may well be that he was off crutches by then and not all injuries have visible signs after getting off them.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Agreed. What will really blow peoples minds is when they find out that the negative affects of former doping WAY out weigh the positive residual affects of doping. Which will really lead to the discussion if an athlete that HEAVILY used PEDs can ever actually get off them entirely and still function at a normal level and how long that would take. The drop off is severe and very long lasting without any other medical intervention.

Clearly not enough specific studies performed in this field of athletics and long lasting PED affects showing the complete life of before, during, immediately after, and continually after.

Starky approaches the topic of triathlon in one of two ways. Telling everyone about how much pain he is going to lay down of the rest of the field or making an excuse and assigning blame for every time he fails to lay down enough of that pain. Some people don't mind continual excuses or blaming officials, volunteers or Messick and that's fine. To each their own. But to publicly equate a recovered drug addict with two former professional cyclists who are convicted dopers based on nothing but complete bullshit and conjecture is at best irresponsible. Starky is scared enough of LS that he's talking about not racing IMFL, blaming WTC for not having pros there next year of course as the reason he'd boycott.

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I personally appreciate his lack of filter. It's refreshing. And I don't even mind his confidence because it is mostly backed up.
And I do find it interesting the way people pounce on every perceived slight by this guy.
He keeps it fun.
And how did he tarnish Sander's reputation? Sanders tarnished it himself (and I believe freely admits it). He stated what is already known. Starky's opinion that it somehow helps Sanders now is in my view silly. If anything it may have caused damage.

As I said in the other thread, nobody has been able to prove that there was any partial truth to it. The basis of Starky's opinion is that Sanders is benefiting from long term effects from cocaine use, and no one has given one peer reviewed article (not to mention nothing comes up at all in search engines on that subject).

He is entitled to his opinion. But throwing random accusations with absolutely 0 scientific evidence behind and only "I heard it from my seventh-degree cousin who is a neighbor to this eminent scientific" basis is not only stupid but damaging to the credibility of this sport.

I'll be happy to accept any proof that Starky might be on to something, but no one apparently has it.

I'll be willing to put my money where my mouth is and suggest anyone having had a pretty wild time in their younger years would have been a lot better off putting that time towards training if they wanted to be faster now. People's perception of social drug use is monumentally skewed.

I think Jackmott sums it up pretty well. I would suggest what might rile some people is that Sanders not only does a bucket load of training but seems to absolutely thrive on ridiculously hard work. If you are that way inclined and can get away with it from an injury point of view I imagine results are going to follow.

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You got things backwards. Saunders didn't tarnish his reputation. He didn't have one in the first place, was a drug addict, and then turned
his life around and made a reputation for himself, that of a dude with an incredible work ethics, a lot of talent (and possibly total lack of knowledge
about training, but that's a different story :-) )

First, please show us evidence of your first statement, and more importantly show that such impairment can exist while not affecting one's abililty to be a professional athlete.

Second, no one has an issue with Starky noting that LS was a former drug user, they have an issue with Starky equating recreational drug addiction to former doping cheaters. So yes, we can blame Starky for that.