Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
I was handed my own butt during a bike race!
Quote | Reply
As the title implies DAMN BIKE RACING IS HARD

I am nowhere near an excellent biker but i can hold my own with an ftp of around 265-270.

My first race was yesterday and as soon as it started it was alternating between 150 watts coasting for a couple of seconds followed by surges at 6-700 watts plus for 10-15 seconds non-stop for the first 45 minutes. I got dropped and got a DNF for the first time in my life. It hurts.

Any advice to remain in the pack for the next race which is next sunday?

I would like to be able to at least try to help members of my team.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Will use my enve 6.7 next week with evo corsa 23 (it's a start).

will bike lots.

Unfortunately i will still continue to run but maybe a bit less.

Any other?
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The first thing to realize is that FTP only gets you a ticket to the show. If you never touch the high end in training, you're training for TT's and tri's, not bike races.

How hard you push the pedals is worth about 40% of what you need to win a bike race. No one talks about the brains and the skills that are required in bike racing. Mostly because the people who understand this aren't interested in sharing that knowledge.

-S
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
snoop wrote:
Will use my enve 6.7 next week with evo corsa 23 (it's a start).

will bike lots.

Unfortunately i will still continue to run but maybe a bit less.

Any other?


don't look at the display for power. if you know that you are cruising at 150W, it means your eyes aren't on the road and the riders ahead. while we are on this matter, forget the PM altogether and use it for post race analysis. I'm a firm believer that a beginner should learn how to ride a bike in a pack before worrying about numbers, and i see way too many cat 5's out there wasting away a lot of power and thinking that they didn't do well b/c of a lack of power when it's race craft that could have helped them save a lot of energy.

learn to draft, learn to move up the pack by maneuvering through the inside of a pack (i.e. with rider on both your left and right), resist the urge to sideblast unless you can gain a lot of position, and even then, do it when someone else is side blasting. But most importantly, learn how to move up without putting your nose in the wind
Last edited by: echappist: Apr 20, 14 8:46
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't quit running :) don't be a lance.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you.

That's exactly what happened yesterday. I was told to always try to gain some places and to always move up the pack. I did exactly that and seized an opening on the side and gained about 20 places in a couple of seconds. The thing is, i did that with my nose in the wind and as soon as i sat up to regain the pack, a HUGE surge from the front had everybody holding on to dear life. Of course, with the effort i had just made i got passed and could barely sprint to rejoin.

So that's the story of how my race ended.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
here in new mexico the tippy top end of the racing field is pretty fast. we race pro1/2/3 together for lack of fields greater than 25 for each category. but we are pretty fast. a buddy of mine with an ftp of about 340(4.6w/kg) (won cat 3 gila tt and 2nd place valley of the sun cat 2) got dropped in the first new mexico race in the first 10 miles. if you dont have the power to go 800-950 multiple times then ftp doesnt matter. you are in no mans land it gets pretty windy out here and so its a long ride home.

a good ftp is a nice thing to have but you need to be able to get away or get into breaks or recover from attacks all of which have nothing to do with a metric that tells you how hard you can go for an hour straight. is it great to have? absolutely and one of the most important, but by no means is it everything in bike racing. sprint power and 1-3minute numbers are huge in bike racing.

and lose weight.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
if i were you i'd approach the next 10 races (presumably this was your first) with a different set of goals.

a) don't crash or cause a crash
b) learn to surf wheels. Forget about the PM and all that stuff, and make it a goal that the result you want is to get to the front without having to expend a lot of power. Have a goal such as i want to be at the front how many riders by a certain stage of a race. a corollary that comes out of this is that you'll realize that you'll have saved quite a bit of energy, which will help you not only get through the race but challenge for a good placing. Thanks to data provided by strava, i know i have been in numerous races where i put out a lot less power but ended up placing higher. And i'm not a sprinter, so the higher placing is mostly due to placement in the pack and judicious application of power when absolutely necessary
c) learn how to corner. This applies not only to when you can pick your line but also when you are going 4 abreast through a turn. Being able to carry speed while carving a tight racing line will be immensely helpful
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks again

I have already decided against viewing of power numbers for the next race and i will try to exercise your advices.

Will report back.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [frankienm] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Crap I am already at 74kg for 182cm (5.11 1/2)
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If this was your first bike race, that I assume your raced Cat 5. This group is all over the place. Probably the number one thing to learn from this group, unit you move up, is don't crash. Learn bike handling skills like when you are touching handle bars with the next guy or rubbing wheels. Perhaps practice on some rollers too for bike handling. After you get used to this, your heart won't be racing so bad due to nerves and you can use it to pedal instead.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [woof] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well it was in Québec/Canada so there are no Cat1-5.

I raced master 1 or M1 which is 30-39 years old. Many of the guys would be close to Cat1 and the field goes down to maybe cat 4-5 (approx)

Bike skills were for the most part ok and there were only 3 or 4 guys that looked out of place.

Not the smoothest ride ever but by hearing some of the stories here i was expecting worse!
Last edited by: snoop: Apr 20, 14 9:18
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Was this a circular race or a crit? If it is people will surge in the same places most of the time except for a few attacks. learn where they are and be ready for them. Lots of times they do this after going around a corner and these corners causes a huge accordion affect with the different talent level. If it is on the road recognize where they might do this. In a mixed group like that they will do it on every corner, uphill or turn into the wind to try and get rid of the people with less experience to make their group a little safer.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
snoop wrote:
I got dropped and got a DNF for the first time in my life. It hurts...

How did you get a DNF?? -- (Did you quit?!)
Last edited by: Brushman: Apr 20, 14 10:54
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power means nothing until you learn tactics and race strategy.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Brushman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
He was probably doing a crit....

That's how I started doing this stuff, doing crits. Wrestling on a bike! But, sheezh, the guys above me were putting out huge surges that were impossible to keep up with in the beginning, and some of those "critters" are BIG. I'm guessing the Cat 1 and above guys are putting out 1200 watts or more in some of those sprints to the bell or finish. Does anyone have a power meter file from a recent pro crit? It would prove instructive.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Robert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Robert wrote:
He was probably doing a crit....

That's how I started doing this stuff, doing crits. Wrestling on a bike! But, sheezh, the guys above me were putting out huge surges that were impossible to keep up with in the beginning, and some of those "critters" are BIG. I'm guessing the Cat 1 and above guys are putting out 1200 watts or more in some of those sprints to the bell or finish. Does anyone have a power meter file from a recent pro crit? It would prove instructive.

-Robert

I'm a lowly Cat3, I'll hit 1200+ watts a couple times in a crit at ~150 pounds. The big boy Cat 1's around here will finish at 1500+ in a field sprint.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Brushman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brushman wrote:
snoop wrote:
I got dropped and got a DNF for the first time in my life. It hurts...

How did you get a DNF?? -- (Did you quit?!)

Don't think of it as a DNF. You got pulled. Bike racing is a different beast; the goal is to compete, not to complete the distance at any pace (that's what centuries are for).

For each race, try to get farther in the race before being dropped. The first major goal is to finish "ST".

Tips for the next race:

Do some sprint and threshold training. It's not about average power, it's about being around after each surge.

Stay tucked in the pack until you can finish in the field. If you're in the wind, you should be off the front (as my college coach used to say).

About 1/3-1/2 way back is a good place to be. Further back and you get to play crack-the-whip on corners and rollers; further up and you spend a lot of energy fighting for position.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Probably not a whole lot you can do in the next week, but also...race more, much more (assuming you want to continue to race bikes). You should obviously train the way many other people have suggested, but it's practically impossible to simulate just how deep you have to dig to hang on sometimes in races, so don't be afraid to go out there and lose or get pulled, you'll learn more about how to race smart, conserve energy and figure when it makes sense to burn a match or two (or the whole book).
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Robert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have a friend who was a former pro and we used to be teammates. Nor Cal has a crit called Cat's Hill with a 100m section that's 23%. The M35 1,2,3 race does it 18 times-it's almost a full sprint each one up. He was about 70kg and won the race by doing 1250 watts last time up the hill, rode ~.5k to finish straight with one other guy, then smoked him in sprint.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [snoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You asked for advice so ...

Since you now know a lot more about a crit race (I'm assuming) and you also know NOT to watch your pwr, speed, HR, etc. (I just finished a crit yesterday where we averaged 27.5 mph with 6 turns and a hill - I have no idea what my power was at times, but was pegged on/off as usual and 1200w at the end still put me right out of the money ...)

I'd advise trying to get to the front quickly and stay there. I don't mean stay position 3-5 (ideal, but that is what everybody else wants as well), go ahead and stick your nose out front. You will be fine for a while, can respond to attacks, surges, pick lines through corners (however bad, slow), but it is certainly easier than tailgunning and yo-yoing until you pop. Try it! You also mentioned "help teamates". You can blast/attack off the front, others will chase and your mates get pulled up and others are burning matches chasing you.

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's just INSANE!


Carl Spackler wrote:
I have a friend who was a former pro and we used to be teammates. Nor Cal has a crit called Cat's Hill with a 100m section that's 23%. The M35 1,2,3 race does it 18 times-it's almost a full sprint each one up. He was about 70kg and won the race by doing 1250 watts last time up the hill, rode ~.5k to finish straight with one other guy, then smoked him in sprint.
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sheezh.... Mind-boggling power, eh? I wasn't very good at picking my parents.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Quote Reply
Re: I was handed my own butt during a bike race! [Me_XMan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This hill is also lined with lots and lots of very loud spectators. One year I was walking to meet teammates on the hill and at the bottom where you come down the street and take a left straight up the hill, a Cat. 4 or 5 guy had just had enough (and was well off the back). He slowed and "missed" the turn, going into the fence and then leaned over and laid down on the ground and said, "Crash - free lap?" Cracked everyone up.

Totally awesome race - especially to spectate!!



Me_XMan wrote:
That's just INSANE!


Carl Spackler wrote:
I have a friend who was a former pro and we used to be teammates. Nor Cal has a crit called Cat's Hill with a 100m section that's 23%. The M35 1,2,3 race does it 18 times-it's almost a full sprint each one up. He was about 70kg and won the race by doing 1250 watts last time up the hill, rode ~.5k to finish straight with one other guy, then smoked him in sprint.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Quote Reply

Prev Next