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I think my running days are done...UPDATE

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mjpwooo

Jun 25, 12 19:49

Post #1 of 42 (4459 views)

I think my running days are done...UPDATE	Quote \| Reply

Need to vent a bit here, apologies for rambling. Hopefully it will make me feel better.

Herniated a disk 25 years ago, in 8th grade. Lived with sporadic back issues every so often, would rest, stretch, etc. No big deal. About two weeks ago, I ran, then had a stiff back. No big deal. Ran the next day and worked out/lifted. No big deal. (still had a stiff back) Thursday, ran, and then the back stiffness shifted to pain in the front of my hip. Couldn't stretch quad, started walking with a limp. Major, shooting pain in left hip. Then, numbness in my left calf, or the INSIDE of left calf.

Got MRI of hip, clear. MRI of lumbar spine. Extruded disk at L3. Impinging nerve causing the pain and numbness/weakness. Have seen a chiro, and he was very optimistic that after a steroid injection, he would have me back in 30 days.

Saw neurosurgeon today (seeing a back ortho next week for a second opinion), and his opinion was that shots should/could work. Encouraged me to go down that road. He then told me that L4/L5 had significant disc degeneration (I knew I had this). His advice....give up running now, or else risk a major surgery in ~10 years (disk fusion). He also said the herniation was outside of the normal area for a simple discectomy. The herniation location requires going in at a different angle, cutting through muscle. Recovery for regular discectomy is ~6 weeks or so. For me, it would be a longer 12 weeks, and improvement would come much slower, making it a bit more frustrating.

The realization that I won't be able to run much longer was the most difficult thing to handle. I'm about done running I think and that's got me bummed out. Add to that, I can't walk, my back hurts, and I might need surgery (which will be more complicated then the regular discectomy)...down in the dumps.

Thanks for letting me vent.

(This post was edited by mjpwooo on Jul 19, 12 15:43)

karma

Jun 25, 12 20:00

Post #2 of 42 (4407 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Running isn't everything. I know its hard to hear, but there are lots of ways to get out and have fun outdoors that don't require a lot of flexibility and don't pound away at what little disc tissue you have left.

How about getting into cycle touring or XC MTB'ing? Ever try XC skiing? Throw in some shooting skills and you have a biathlon. Need speed? How about crit racing. Stand up paddle boarding may actually strengthen your back muscles. There's always swimming, a really great way to stay fit. Competitive roller blade racing is not as hard on your joints and its some serious cardio.

I know where you are coming from. My ortho told me, after knee surgery in 2010 to stop running. I ran my first 50K and first 50M runs this year. I didn't listen. Perhaps I will regret the choice.

Good luck.

Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Grungir

Jun 25, 12 20:49

Post #3 of 42 (4280 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Sorry to hear :(
I've got 2 perforated discs but they are up by my neck...makes riding in aero a bitch sometimes. I will eventually need surgery.
How about aquabike? Relays?

mjpwooo

Jun 25, 12 20:54

Post #4 of 42 (4268 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I know, relays, aquas, etc., are there. But I've been running since I was in 9th grade, and was always good at it. That's ~25 years doing something. Kind of tough to have to give that up.

I'm getting a second opinion, and if I need surgery, a third opinion. But I'm going to ask with the surgeon's permission...if I can have one more race. Just one more. Who knows which one. But one last attempt to have a great day. I'll spend more time on the swim and pike practice, but just one more. I hope.

jayfivetri

Jun 25, 12 20:58

Post #5 of 42 (4254 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I am very sorry to hear this if your running days are indeed over. I often think about what I will do when the day comes for me, but so far I have no idea, but I have confidence I will find something, and I believe you will too. Best of luck to you

FJB

Jun 26, 12 5:00

Post #6 of 42 (3994 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

You may not want to hear this but I had to stop running a few years ago and decided to take up hiking. I was fortunate to live near some foothills and would go out regularly on long hikes. I also did a 1 hour outdoor hike/walk everyday at lunch and now I wouldn't change that for running even if I had the chance. I am travelling now but prior to that and after my injury I continued to swim and bike and combined with the walking I feel 100% better than I did in my running days.

Just to add that there are lots of alternatives even though it sounds like you love running much more than I ever did. :)

QuintanaRooster

Jun 26, 12 5:09

Post #7 of 42 (3964 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I have been working in the medical field for 27 years now (Physician Assistant) and have alot of respect for specialists (orthopods, neurosurgeons, etc). Keep in mind though that medicine is NOT an exact science. Alot of information which is provided to you is still anecdotal. I am soon to be 48 years old. I had my first L5-S1 discectomy 22 years ago and second L5-S1 discectomy 20 years ago while on active duty in the U.S. Army. I was told back then by multiple orthopedic surgeons that I should give up running because "the constant pounding was not good for my back and I could end up crippled." Good advice to an active 25 year old, huh? Glad I listened to him *sarcasm.* Six years ago struck by car cycling, fractured hip socket (acetabulum) among multiple other injuries. Local orthopedic surgeon tells me not much he can do for me. He recommends 6-8 weeks of bedrest and then if I am lucky, I'll be able to walk without a limp but definitely no running. More good advice from a "specialist" (*more sarcasm*). Fortunately for me, I knew his information was incorrect and I was transferred to an orthopedic trauma center where I had successful acetabular surgery and after 3 months of non-weight bearing I was able to learn to walk again and then ultimately run again. I have completed 1 Ironman before I was hit by the car and 2 since and counting. Had I taken each of the orthopods advice, I am sure I'd be an overweight, out-of-shape, depressed couch potato. Maybe one day all of my defiance will catch up with me. I know for me however that when I do take time off from training, my back starts stiffening up and the rest of my body starts aching. I know all the thoughts that are going through your mind now. Take time to process it all, get second and third opinions and definitely do some physical therapy. There is much that can be done to strengthen your back/core once you get through this acute episode. Don't give up, stay positive, and remember that your body has the ability to do some amazing things despite what doctor(s) may tell you. Good luck.

Team Endurance Nation

lightheir

Jun 26, 12 5:10

Post #8 of 42 (3960 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Second opinion for sure. Go to a sports medicine doctor who has experience with this. Herniated discs can be activity limiting, but they often are not, even when the pain is super severe at times. These discs often come and go as well. It's not a clear cut "end of running" diagnosis as you might think. (As opposed to 'you have cancer' which typically is when they give you the news.)

Doctors are trained to be extremely conservative for reasons of litigation. A doctor would be far more likely to tell you to quit running altogether even if there were a 70% chance you'd be able to come back successfully but a 5% chance that you would sue them if what they said turned out to be wrong about the improvement. In fact, even if there were a 1% real chance of litigation, I suspect most doctors would take the easy road out and say "stop running" since it's not worth the risk to them. (See 1000 patients, get sued 10 times? No MD is going to want to face that.)

Sports MDs have the most experience and are the most likely able to balance your sports interests with the reality of the injury. Get a 2nd opinion for sure.

blackduckracing

Jun 26, 12 5:27

Post #9 of 42 (3888 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

DON'T GIVE UP. I know all injuries are different, and not that you asked for it any advice, but get a second... and third... opinion. It sounds like I may be a bit younger than you, however I was once an Olympic athlete (not triathlon, another sport) and suffered two herniated discs. The same disc and one right after the other, each before I was 34yo. One due to a impact injury while competing and one because I did a really stupid exercise. My symptoms were exactly the same as yours but down my right leg. I had significant muscle wasting on my right quad and calf and could not stretch that side at all. Running was not painful to me although my gate significantly changed and caused some minor foot asymmetry, biking the aero position was near to impossible at the worst times, but swimming felt great.

Long story short, I came back from both within 6 months and my doctors (2 ortho surgeons, 1 chiro, 1 PT) never told me to shut down. They urged me to get the shot, but I stubbornly refused. In fact they praised me for systemically and carefully working through the injury(s) without drugs, staying mobile, and re-organizing my training. I took 2-3 PT visits per week (still do), foam-rolled and stretched 2x/day, and maintained my endurance workouts as best as I could, albeit shorter overall. Forget about the iron... lifting absolutely ruins any chance for recovery. I literally sold all of my weights so I wouldn't be tempted. The embarrassing part is that as a retired pro athlete I have to be very careful and diligent about lifting things like potted plants or stuff around the garage... it's embarrassing at times, but at least I can still function.

Currently, my back is in pretty good shape... injury-wise. I have some left over remnants I can feel the morning after a hard day or sitting at my desk for too long without getting up. I'm a cancer survivor too (much younger in life) so my body will never let me be the level of a pro triathlete, even if I had the mind to, but I'm happy to podium an age-group race every now and then! I switched to triathlon in my chemo recovery... so, I wasn't going to let a disc issue stop me.

Again, not that you asked for anyone's thoughts... but try and re-prioritize and re-evaluate your body and training, dump the weights, and focus on the lean and mean. Perhaps you will be able to continue a little longer than you think!

Good luck...

EDIT: my injuries were L5-S1 both times

-Eric
---
"The Fit Shall Inherit the Earth" -Endurance Conspiracy

(This post was edited by blackduckracing on Jun 26, 12 5:55)

arby

Jun 26, 12 5:43

Post #10 of 42 (3823 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I was told by a ortho surgeon 13 years ago that I should quit running do to some issues that I was having with my back at the time. I lost some weight, went to a PT for a short time and have been going strong ever since. Good luck with your situation! Don't give up just yet.

mjpwooo

Jun 26, 12 5:57

Post #11 of 42 (3746 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [arby] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The thibg that concerns me is the disc degeneration I am experiencing as a 37yo. That's a bit scary that I may need fusion surgery in 10 years if a run still.

Seeing back ortho tomorrow, looking forward to his opinion as well.

Thanks again for letting me vent. Been a tough 2 weeks physically (pain and no sleep) and emotionally (wife and me).

tridana

Jun 26, 12 5:59

Post #12 of 42 (3730 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I am so sorry to hear about the news you got about your back. I am also so sorry that many medical professionals jump to this level of restriction at the first sign of 'trouble'. None of us know your pain, your body, your life, your MRI, etc - but fortunately or unfortunately this is not an unusual symptom/pain. As a member of the ST community you are likely healthier and fitter than the majority of the general population - this can only help your back. As you have heard from others, get other opinions and as a bias - see a physical therapist who is also an athlete. Steroid injections are great for getting the acute inflammation out, but they don't address the weakness that inherently will exist in a person with back pain for as long as you have mentioned. You will likely need a long period of intermittent care, but that seems better than giving up the ghost or expensive back surgery (your insurance company may disagree and tell you they will pay for $XXXXX for back surgery, but you get 12 visits for PT!). Don't know where you are, but if you want some good PT recommendations, I can sure try - PM me.
________________________________________________
Don't Just Live, Thrive!
Thrive Kinematics Physical Therapy - http://www.facebook.com/...8178667572974?ref=hl

mjpwooo

Jun 26, 12 6:27

Post #13 of 42 (3633 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [tridana] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I am in Tampa.

lightheir

Jun 26, 12 6:40

Post #14 of 42 (3573 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

mjpwooo wrote:

Discs in younger people are more apt to come and go. Don't despair.

Robert

Jun 26, 12 6:43

Post #15 of 42 (3559 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Well.... I was hit by a drunk driver about 18 years ago. Serious back injury and many other injuries. Didn't walk right for a year, and didn't run for two years. Even though I got back to running I was never as fast as I had been and had tons of pain for years. Then, two years ago I decided to try the steroid injection rather than surgery. It was a very good fix FOR ME. Since then, I've had 5 injections, spaced apart between 4-6 months and I'm able to run without significant pain. My orthopedic surgeon said he would advise me not to run, but "You are going to have back pain whether you run or not, unless we are able to do a procedure on your L-5/S-1 and T-12 (broken in the accident) that effectively relieves the pain". My ortho has a very bad back but he still runs on the treadmill and plays tennis 4 days a week, so there is hope. There are so many benefits to running, I'd say run IF YOU CAN. But, listen to your doctor. My days of running are probably limited but I've extended my time in the sport thanks to that little steroid injection. YMMV!!!

Someting else. Advances in this area are being made almost daily, so at some point, assuming you aren't 90 now, you will be able to run. You might be 50 or 60, but you will be able to run. Maybe some day all the 70 year olds will have young joints. ;)

Good luck!

-Robert
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

cmscat50

Jun 26, 12 7:31

Post #16 of 42 (3461 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm 34 and had surgery on a blowout in L5 6 years ago now. I went from running a marathon in June to barely being able to walk in October that year. It was SCARY! Especially when I was only 28!

I had the disceptomy. I have pain. No doubt. I get stiff, have bad days, have good days, have great days. I still get some pain / tingling in my foot, calf, hamstring. My surgeon recommended no more running at the time. I have since seen another surgeon that told me to KEEP RUNNING...and biking...and swimming...lol.

I have super bad degeneration in L5 and now L4 is getting ugly. My calf is twitching as I type this...and my hamstring a bit.

As another poster said when I don't workout it's almost worse as it stiffens up.

For me I'm aware of the issue, I try to treat it well as much as possible. I know that I'm in line for surgery in the future.

What the future holds is promising. My local ortho is dead set that my next procedure will be DISK REPLACEMENT...he's operate today if I'd let him. My sister works in stem cell in MIT and she claims stem cell injections are getting closer and closer. Fusion tech is improving. LOTS of options. The longer we wait the better tech is getting.

GOOD LUCK!!!

doug in co

Jun 26, 12 8:04

Post #17 of 42 (3378 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

don't listen to those doctors, find new ones.
I had the same experience in my early 40s, did not listen to the doctor who said stop running, found a new sports med and a good PT. That was ten years ago and still running. Discs are still herniated too, but not degenerating, and largely pain-free, occasional stiffness is all. As you can see in this thread, it's a common experience in middle age, 35 to 45 - both the back pain/disc herniation, and the advice to stop running from non-running doctors. You will have to spend quite a bit of time on the PT exercises, now and forever more, still that's better than surgery and stopping.

h2ofun

Jun 26, 12 8:30

Post #18 of 42 (3305 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Some interesting replies.

Yep, running is always the first thing to do. And yep, the folks who I know that cannot run at all anymore were "lifetime" runners. Most tell me they wish they would have done a lot
more cross training and had limited the running.

All I know is looking at the males over 55 now, very few can run well at all. Is this just age or is some of it over use? Why are there so many fewer races over 55? Most older guys I have talked
with had to give up because they could not run anymore.

This is why I only run max 18 miles, all LSD running 3 days a week. I figure just enough to allow me to run okay on race day.

I also had back issues a few years ago and could barely walk. Ended up with 2 steroid shots which got me back in the game. But, if I do not do my back exercises 3 days a week, I can start to feel it again.

So, best of luck. Just trying to offer we all got to hang it up sometime. But, I hope when I cannot run anymore, I will still be out there fast walking.

.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." � Mark Twain
"If you argue with an idiot, there are two idiots� � Robert Kiyosaki
VHS to DVD http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

ConnorWhite

Jun 26, 12 8:57

Post #19 of 42 (3238 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Chiropractor, greater than sign, the neurosurgeon. I had back/hip problems which affected my knee, leaving me unable to run. Went to a neurosurgeon who said I needed some super expensive tests and stuff done, maybe surgery, etc. Then I went to a chiropractor and literally she popped my back and neck a few times and I've been running with zero problems since. Just something to think about.

oldtriguy

Jun 26, 12 9:53

Post #20 of 42 (3140 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I know this is sort of off the wall, but I have a friend whose husband was state police, secret service type, had some disc issues that caused severe pain and ended up going to Spain to have artificial discs. Apparently a very common surgery in Europe, but not approved in the US. Has been active and pain free for years now. He was in his early 50's when he had the surgery. All the doctors were US trained, etc. Just something to explore. Good luck.

summitt

Jun 26, 12 10:04

Post #21 of 42 (3100 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [arby] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

arby wrote:

I was told the same crap seven years ago. You need to stop, your back is old, arthritic, nerve canals closing, blah blah blah and you should never race again. Walked out of that office and thought my days were done. Since then I've done several IM races, multiple halfs, and even hernitated my lower disk in a motocross accident. Never had surgery or shots. It healed up and it's as good as new.

Second opinion. Give it time. If the scaitic pain goes too long then you need to do something.

Good luck and stay POSITIVE!

Robert Preston

Jun 26, 12 11:01

Post #22 of 42 (3021 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Not quite in the same position as you are, but my running days are over for the foreseeable future. I've been running for 13 years (always active before that), and I had some pretty aggressive goals for this year. I was getting after it and making some progress through the first quarter of the year but an old injury flared up in spectacular fashion. I haven't run in over 2 months, and I don't see myself running again for the rest of the year. All of my friends are runners, and I'm missing out on a great deal by not even being able to run recreationally. I've been doing what others have suggested, and I've actually made some good gains on the bike. But I do miss running. I didn't realize what a gift it truly is.

jyeager

Jun 26, 12 11:37

Post #23 of 42 (2952 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [mjpwooo] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Ask for the study that proves that running causes or accelerates disc degeneration.
I will bet that it's a guess. It could actually be helpful.

I have a longstanding issue with L4/L5 that started when I was 19 and as of age 46 I have avoided surgery (but if a discectomy was called for I'd have done it in a second). The disc is degenerating, but doesn't seem to be degenerating as quickly as my younger sister's discs (not a runner).

h2ofun

Jun 26, 12 11:41

Post #24 of 42 (2925 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [jyeager] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

46 is young. Give yourself another 10 years and see what you can do.

.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." � Mark Twain
"If you argue with an idiot, there are two idiots� � Robert Kiyosaki
VHS to DVD http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

mjpwooo

Jun 27, 12 18:13

Post #25 of 42 (2764 views)

Re: I think my running days are done... [h2ofun] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

First, thanks to all who responded. Gave me some hope when I needed it. This has been two weeks of emotional rollercoaster rides...feeling optimistic to angry to depressed (realized I can't play catch with my son right now...ouch).

A quick update. Pain is a bit relieved in left leg, instead of a constant 6.5 of 10 with occassional 10 of 10 pains, it's a constant 3-4 of ten with occasional 8 of 10's. Pain is in back now too, which just may simply be because my gait is all out whack.

Numbness is still there, which has me more concerned than the pain; pain will go away. Numbness may not, and (IMO) might require surgery. Muscle is starting to get a bit flabby. Getting first shot on Monday.

Saw a second doctor today, and he seemed a bit annoyed when he discovered he was my second opinion. I don't care. If surgery is an option, I'll set a second appt with him. I figure I'll get three surgeons and interview them if it comes down to that.

Here's hoping the steroid shot alleviates the pain and reduces some of the herniation/inflamation so I can feel my leg again...

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