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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Saul you are a inspiration :0)

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Re: I never doped... [blackduckracing] [ In reply to ]
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You wrote: But again, the problem with the world is that I don't think anyone cares except the people doing the testing.

I do not agree. Growing up in sport I have never been around people talking about doping in other terms than just negative. But then I did not grow up or started my competitive career I the USA. I am shocked about the casual relationship many have to PED. When I hear people arguing that using testosterone is not doping, I get mad.

Luckily more and more countries are starting to fight doping, but a lot of work has to be done. The biggest threat to anti doping work is age groupers starting to justify cheating. That is why targeting testing of all suspicious athletes is the way to go. Having a separation between pros and AGs makes no sense, sport is sport.

You have the right to be cynical, but luckily you will help in the fight against doping by speaking up.
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Re: I never doped... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
You wrote: But again, the problem with the world is that I don't think anyone cares except the people doing the testing.

I do not agree. Growing up in sport I have never been around people talking about doping in other terms than just negative. But then I did not grow up or started my competitive career I the USA. I am shocked about the casual relationship many have to PED. When I hear people arguing that using testosterone is not doping, I get mad.

Luckily more and more countries are starting to fight doping, but a lot of work has to be done. The biggest threat to anti doping work is age groupers starting to justify cheating. That is why targeting testing of all suspicious athletes is the way to go. Having a separation between pros and AGs makes no sense, sport is sport.

You have the right to be cynical, but luckily you will help in the fight against doping by speaking up.


Actually, I think we agree more than you realize. I agree about the surprising relationship many have with PED's and the testosterone thing is sickening to me for various reasons. And I have said many times before on other threads that I fully support testing at all levels. My point about people not caring was a response to Saul's attempt to educate the public (my phrase, not his) that many if not most cyclists are clean.

While it is true that other riders care, and most up-and-coming athletes care about who is clean... the disengaged, ignorant, common-man doesn't care. They only see what's posted online or aired on TV or printed in articles... they do not see, nor do some care to see Saul's story or Dev's or Jack's or yours. All they know is that more and more athletes are doing illegal drugs, PED's, and cheating, and therefore they are basically taught that this is the norm and that we all do it.

Do you think all those dumb-asses who we talk about harassing cyclists and runners out on the road, or people who laugh at us because we hurt all the time and will probably die younger because of it, care that we are clean? I believe that no matter how many Sauls, Jordans, or Halvards there are the general public will only believe what they see on TV... and all they see on TV is Lance and how corrupt cycling is.

I've never believed I am cynical (perhaps so) but I believe the general public definitely is... perhaps by nature, perhaps by nurture... who knows.


edit: spelling



-Eric
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"The Fit Shall Inherit the Earth" -Endurance Conspiracy
Last edited by: blackduckracing: Jan 18, 13 10:58
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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saulraisin wrote:
There was no pressure, everyone suspects what teams are doing it and which ones are not. That is why I signed with a French professional team; I did not want to put myself in a position where I would be potentially pressured into doing something. I can tell you now without a doubt that every cyclist with a French professional racing license is a clean cyclist; no questions asked!

Thanks Saul for your kind response. Would not have thought there was such certainty about the French. I know the prosecution there is tough but also the history is long. Good insight

What are you up to this days? Just tri?

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Re: I never doped... [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
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I am engaged to get married, in school trying to graduate, and also looking for a job.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Saul- you are an inspiration. Thank you for posting.

http://www.mountainmettle.com
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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saulraisin wrote:
I am engaged to get married, in school trying to graduate, and also looking for a job.


Well then don't waste this opportunity. What are you graduating with, what do you want to do, and where do you want end up? Some people can't say no to nice weather.

It continues to surprise me how many people come across these threads.
Last edited by: Mr. Burns: Jan 19, 13 9:56
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Saul, I am in your area. You are always welcome to lead our group and let us draft you (if we can keep up). :-)
80 mile route tomorrow from the Cartersville brewery to Chatsworth. Rolling out at 8 am :-)

Thanks for sharing Saul.
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Jan 18, 13 15:52
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Saul,
Do you think this was in part because you were on a French team? Would you be willing to comment on the larger culture within the peloton? That would be really fascinating given all the stuff flying around about how everyone was doped in the LA years.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Saul,

Yours is an inspirational story...I would welcome the opportunity to ride w/ you if you venture up here to Asheville.

As to the topic at hand, a troublesome point is that a negative is impossible to prove...While I personally have no doubts about the veracity of claims made by clean riders such as Saul and Scott Mercier...there is simply no way to verify them...

In 1996, I was sitting on a friend's couch in CA during the buildup to Wildflower...I was offered the chance to get on "a program" that would "take me to the next level"...it was never specifically outlined, just understood what it was...I'd love to say I indignantly laughed and stormed out...the reality was, it was flattering to have someone think I was fast enough to warrant a "program"...ultimately, I never followed through with the offer for a number of reasons...one of them being a sense of right and wrong...but, I can certainly see how the bright lights can be mesmerizing. At least one my compatriots from that life found himself banned at one point...

I can relate to Duck, as I spent most of my "pro" career as pack filler and I have often wondered how good I could've been and how many guys that were blowing my doors were juiced...my suspicion has always been not many, as there were many, many faster athletes, doping was still early and there really wasn't enough money in Tri to support a deep doping culture...but, it was still there at some level...and, I do take some small pride that I passed my own moral test.

Saul...continue to be an outspoken role model...young cyclists could do much worse than to emulate you.
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Re: I never doped... [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
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I signed with Credit Agricole because of their strict testing policies.
Every rider on our team had to have a French racing licence and we also
had to keep an biological passport. I would give upwards of 15 blood test
a year in and out of competition. Every test they would simply look for changes in
blood chemistry not only for drugs but to make sure we were healthy too. The way
the French test their riders it is impossible to beat. That's why good guys like myself
and Thor Hushoved signed for CA. We did not want pressure from other teams. Everyone
in "the system" knows which teams do and do not. We wanted to stay as far away as possible
from the ones that do.

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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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You're an inspiration and a breathe of fresh air in this time of need.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this. Very interesting indeed. Extremely interesting, in fact.

RP
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Saul. I appreciate the insight. Were there other teams you considered, for similar reasons?
I find myself (once again) doing a major re-evaluation of history, as I suspect many others are.
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Re: I never doped... [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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I considered other French teams and teams that did not have several accused dopers on them and that includes the directors.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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saulraisin wrote:
I considered other French teams and teams that did not have several accused dopers on them and that includes the directors.

Saul, good on you but I think you should focus on what you did or did not do and not associate too much with the team you were riding for.

I could without thinking for a second throw 10 rider/DS names at you that have been implicated with drug abuse during GAN/CA times.

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Re: I never doped... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Your You're absolutely right. I just do not want everyone to think that top-level pro cyclist dope, because they don't. I believe that now that less than 10 guys actually do it. It will stop when everyone begins to point fingers. Just about everyone suspects who is cheating. They do not know how they cheat but suspects suspect something. The problem is that no one does anything about it.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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saulraisin wrote:
The problem is that no one does anything about it.

No one is not correct but sure not enough are doing something. Have you spoken to USADA in which way you could help? I'm happy to put you in touch with them if needed.

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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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I wish everybody would race clean. Maybe one day the tests will be ahead of the cheaters. Congrats on not being weak and bowing to pressure of the tours.

Just curious if you took any vitamins or supplements either orally or via injections? I was just wondering if pro cyclists take B12, iron shots, etc....
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Re: I never doped... [uli] [ In reply to ]
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I have never spoke with them. Do you think that they would even listen to me? I also do not think that they would spend the time or money that is needed to actually clean up the sport. I am happy to talk with them, yes please put them in touch with me.

My email is saul@raisinhope.org
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Re: I never doped... [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]
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I did take injectable vitamin B12 and an injectable multivitamin including magnesium and calcium. In France, if a Doctor writes you a prescription for the injectable vitamins they free with the French Social Security.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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 French cyclist former World Champion Bauge

http://www.mirror.co.uk/...gregory-bauge-736791

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Cycling Coach/Trainer/Motorpacing/Computrainer Rental
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Re: I never doped... [tomkat4573] [ In reply to ]
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He is not a professional cyclist, and he must be an idiot.
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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Not that it matters, but he is a french Pro track cyclist (http://en.wikipedia.org/...C3%A9gory_Baug%C3%A9) and apparently not too bright.

http://www.TomMoschettoFitness.com
Cycling Coach/Trainer/Motorpacing/Computrainer Rental
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Re: I never doped... [saulraisin] [ In reply to ]
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saulraisin wrote:
I have never spoke with them. Do you think that they would even listen to me? I also do not think that they would spend the time or money that is needed to actually clean up the sport. I am happy to talk with them, yes please put them in touch with me.

My email is saul@raisinhope.org

Well, they took time to speak with me on several occasions. I think education is a big part of antidoping and personally I would think you'd be someone that could be a great ambassador.

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