Is this the same type of engineering analysis that lead you to believe holding 50 watts for an hour would burn 1000 Calories?

Analytic cycling spit that number out to him somehow.

(edit: I point this out because I don't want Frank to think I ONLY pick on him, I'm just looking for answers. Though yes, I do use that quote in my sig line because I think it's funny.)

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

No, I put that out as the work of several others and prefaced my remarks as assuming their work was correct. I believe I gave the references where these came from. There was no independent engineering analysis involved.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

There's only one person to whom that is 'pretty clear'.....

EDIT: I have to laugh a little at that comment, because it sooo reminded me of this here--you should really give the 'conclusion/validation error' part a read......

 
No, my original engineering analysis only predicted a large increase in power from simply changing all the negative pedal forces to zero and keeping the positive forces the same. There were potential efficiency (and additional power) gains if one could change the direction of the applied forces but one could not predict that these would definitely occur as I could with predicting the definit [/reply]


The objective of the circular pedaler is the attempted application of continuous tangential torque to both cranks at all times by the continuous changing of direction of force application at the four main areas 3,6,9 and 12 o'c, which is exactly what the PC's force you to do. This works in the lower cadences but when you get to a cadence of 90, your brain will have to make about 12 power application direction adjustments per second which is impossible and the best you can hope for is mentally keeping your shoe ahead of or out of the way of the idling pedal. With PC's this means towing the idling crank/pedal around under the shoe. The overall PC result is, like that of the circular pedaler, you have no negative forces but you also have no power gains in these towing areas and you end up with a weaker downstroke than that of the stomper/masher because half of your concentation has been diverted from this most important area of the pedaling circle between 1 and 5 o'c to the impossible tasks of the idling leg. Unweighting alone will not interfere with a rider's concentration on the downstroke, done correctly it can even improve it. Have you noticed that from the time car drivers begin to use their hand held phones, their is a gradual reduction in speed.

"Have you noticed that from the time car drivers begin to use their hand held phones, their is a gradual reduction in speed."

No. But I have noticed a gradual drift into my lane.

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

any luck with the power file yet?

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Joaquin emailed me that two things have delayed it. He has been traveling and one of his daughters is in the hospital with pneumonia.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

that's unfortunate - Best wishes to Joaquin's daughter for a speedy recovery.

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Bump, I hope his daughter is ok. As much as I'd like to see the results of analysis on the file, his daughter is MORE than enough of an excuse to me for taking some time.

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

I feel bound to point out that although both cars and bicycles go faster when you push down harder on the pedals, the mechanism is slightly different.

[reply][reply]
Unweighting alone will not interfere with a rider's concentration on the downstroke, done correctly it can even improve it. Have you noticed that from the time car drivers begin to use their hand held phones, their is a gradual reduction in speed.[/reply]
I feel bound to point out that although both cars and bicycles go faster when you push down harder on the pedals, the mechanism is slightly different.[/reply]


It could have been worse, you could have drew my attention to the incorrect spelling of "there". The mechanism may be different but the lack of concentration on the main objective is the same, resulting in reduction in pedal power for the cyclist and possible fatal results for the motorist or his victim. I did say earlier that the PC's circular style is a stepping stone to the perfect pedaling style (linear) which is a semi-circular style, the main difference or advantage being that with this technique total concentration can be given to each leg as it applies its continuous max power to the pedal from start to finish of its 180 degrees of the pedaling circle.

So after dedicating your life to the pursuit of the perfect pedal stroke, have you actually gotten any faster? Maybe your time would've been better spent doing intervals.

[reply]
So after dedicating your life to the pursuit of the perfect pedal stroke, have you actually gotten any faster? Maybe your time would've been better spent doing intervals. [/reply]

Having took up cycling at age 42 and read about the mysterious technique of J. Anquetil, my only objective was to discover this technique and in this I succeeded. Cycling is one of the greatest rip off sports if you were to take it seriously in time trials etc. , with riders paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars for equipment to shave a few seconds off their TT time. Then you have the powermeter craze to add to this expense. Before I discovered this technique which can take minutes off your 25m TT time, I had already found that interval training on open roads had become too risky as I was hit on two occasions by cars emerging from minor side roads underestimating the speed at which I was travelling. I cycle for pleasure now. I hope to give a free demonstration of this technique next Jan if any serious pedaling researchers are interested enough to do the travelling, which would be cheaper than a set of PC's.

Aaah...so there's a date set to this now...well, sort of. Will you be doing the demonstration with some way of measuring the torque output, or force pedals? Perhaps some sort of muscle activation monitoring like is done with the "Wobblenaught" systems? Just curious.

I'm also curious as to why you've never seemed to be able to clearly describe this so-called mysterious technique. Is it not something that could be easily shown with just a couple of diagrams?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Holy crap, Tom.

I can't quite decide if you're a masochist or a sadist; Either way, that has to be the single best/worst troll bait post of the entire year....



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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

I'm bored.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

what's the saying...

those who know, do not tell
those who tell, do not know

even if "perfection" has "figured it out", i don't think he'll ever be able to describe it to one who doesn't already know experientially exactly what he's talking about. it's too obscure. how do you describe a sensation to somebody else who has never felt it? it's like a woman trying to get a man to understand what it feels like to give birth.

No, I think that has to go to the "wetsuit orgasm" thread. But I am still curious to see this mystical power file. Of course it sorta lost it's luster when I realized I can do about 90% of what he claims to have done...and I've only been seriously training for a couple of years. Maybe I'll start a thread about how to increase by 40% in 1 year without PCs. I'm sure you've seen my thread on BTR.

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"Maybe I'll start a thread about how to increase by 40% in 1 year without PCs"

please do...Learn could use that to get his IM FL time down to 9:38 next year...(he's already tapped the PCs for their 40%!)

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

Yes, but it can be fun watching them try.

Anyhow, if this is going to occur anywhere that I can get to "easily" I will be there. Or, maybe he will put his explanation/demonstration on Youtube so we can all see it.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I once had an ER nurse tell me that it feels a lot like passing a kidney stone. My reply to her was that I would never ask any woman to do such a thing for me.

I think you should.

 
even if "perfection" has "figured it out", i don't think he'll ever be able to describe it to one who doesn't already know experientially exactly what he's talking about. it's too obscure. [/reply]

You are right, that's why a demonstration is required. Remembering that the main objective is the successful combination of upper and lower body muscles turning the whole body into a power generating machine, for this to be possible power application and resistance lines have to be parallel, so simplified off the bike examples are needed. In the first one a rider will clearly see and experience for himself how to generate the leg power. The second one clearly shows the objective (which he can also experience for himself) when applying this power to the pedal. Then a simple on the bike example of what the perfected finished product looks like for comparison with the footage of Anquetil's pedaling on video is all that remains. There will be no torque measuring devices, when you see this technique the only question that arises is by how much does it improve your tt or pursuit time. It's back to the Anquetil era with pedals, toe-clips and straps, the only difference being in the handlebars and that was where Anquetil (the perfectionist) badly slipped up both from the aerodynamic and power aspects.

[reply][reply]
Maybe I'll start a thread about how to increase by 40% in 1 year without PCs. [/reply]
I think you should.[/reply]


Yes, but it should read 1 week and unlike the PC's promised increase, this one has a sensible explanation. Take yourself a natural stomper, your power application is restricted by lack of tangential effect before 2 o'c. With the mysterious linear EXTENDED stroke, power application is as powerful and equally as tangential EVEN BEFORE 12 O'C, as it is aound 2,3 and 4 o'c with the addition of an instant boost of power at the start of the stroke from a firmly anchored resistance base.