Would anyone like to take bets on whether or not you'll receive the head unit with a mysteriously dead battery?

Thank you. Thank you. I couldn't quite remember the scene.
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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

So, another option. He has made the offer to ride with anyone. And, he has said folks have not shown up.
So, is there not one ST person who can meet him, do the hill, have a SRM, PT, or whatever, and
lets give the benefit of the doubt? Seems a lot better than getting his PT sent over.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Would anyone like to take bets on whether or not you'll receive the head unit with a mysteriously dead battery?[/reply]
My money's on an EMP shockwave frying the CPU.

I think the better term would be to say the file is corrupted. It is possible it is corrupted because it was manipulated but, I suspect, it is possible there are other possibilities also. People seem to accept that the cadence data can be extremely flawed but that all these other numbers are inviolate. So be it.

Because the HR data seems flawed also I am putting my money on a problem with the PT for now. It is what makes the most sense to me, unless someone can come up with a plausible reason (or a witness) as to why Joaquin would care to do this.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I think the better term would be to say the file is corrupted. It is possible it is corrupted because it was manipulated but, I suspect, it is possible there are other possibilities also. People seem to accept that the cadence data can be extremely flawed but that all these other numbers are inviolate. So be it.

Because the HR data seems flawed also I am putting my money on a problem with the PT for now. It is what makes the most sense to me, unless someone can come up with a plausible reason (or a witness) as to why Joaquin would care to do this.[/reply]The numbers aren't inviolate, but when a Power Tap has 'problems', the problems are very, very predictable. The problems manifest themselves as data drop outs, not repeating cyclical patterns of numbers (if you want an example of a PT file experiencing rain-related data drops, I can gladly send you one so you can look at the raw data to get an idea of how the problems manifest themselves).

That the problems would manifest themselves in a way that would, by complete coincidence, mimic a desired result--and do so in the manner that they have (repeated numerical patterns) is, in a word, unbelievable.

I'd be curious to see what a representative of Power Tap would have to say about the file?

I'm putting my money on the fact that someone just cut-and-pasted entire blocks of data in the .csv file, thus inflating the average speed and power but also resulting in the repeating sequences for speed, torque, power, AND heart rate. But hey, I'm only a scientist, not a physician, so what do I know about interpreting data? ;-)

The simplest explanation for what happened is that the file was doctored. Anything else would have to involve a series of fantastically unlikely coincidences. Wouldn't you agree that the most likely explanation is that the file was tampered with?

The following point has already been made, but you've thus far failed to address it. If this were, as you suggest, the result of a malfunctioning PT, what are the odds that:

1. Only the data relating to the climb in question were affected by the malfunction; and
2. The data were affected in such a way as to exactly support the claim made by the "victim" of the malfunction; and
3. The data were affected in a way that is consistent with a botched attempt to fake a PT file (e.g. repeating identical numerical sequences consistent with a "cut-and-paste" approach, etc)?

Seriously, ask yourself what the above question, and see if you still want to try to defend the position that it's just an innocent malfunction.

"So, is there not one ST person who can meet him, do the hill, have a SRM, PT, or whatever, and
lets give the benefit of the doubt? Seems a lot better than getting his PT sent over"

Seriously? Sending a tiny CPU for $15 via UPS seems HARDER than finding someone near him in Spain and changing out wheels/cranks/bottom brackets?

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Oh my f'-ing god....was THAT intentional?? DAMN funny. At least you didn't say "physicianed".

If that was intentional, man, you are now my hero.


Smelly

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ErgVideo.com

just to throw something else out there: what happens when one exceeds the recording memory of a PT CPU? Does it wrap around and start smoothly overwriting the start of the file or ... does it go haywire?

Still doesn't make the data "real" of course but it's another possibility (remote I'll admit).

Alternately, I'm thinking all PowerCrank "proof" rides occur in a Holodeck simulation and the computer got into a close to endless loop there :-)

I am regretting ever starting this thread..although it has been entertaining. I took a look at the file and it definitely appears to have been modified. I say "modified", not "corrupted", because it's full of repeating identical data blocks in the section marked as interval 1. It's statistically unlikely, let's say, for this to occur as a result of data corruption. It's visually evident if you look at the file in CyclingPeaks.

The dumbest part of this whole thing is that neither I nor (I hope) Joaquin really set out to prove anything with this ride. I just wanted to ride a good climb, see if Joaquin was really as strong as he claimed. Power numbers from this, good or bad, wouldn't really show much of anything regarding the efficiency of PCs; it's just more anecdotal testimony.

I started the thread more for amusement value than anything else.

As Rappstar pointed out a few pages back, beating me up the climb doesn't prove any particular point other than that my watts/kg. is lower. A few facts remain:
1) I exist, ;-)
2) Joaquin easily beat me up the climb; his time would have had to be about what he says it was for him to have come back down and met me with about 2 kms remaining and climb back up with me (I reached the top in 42 minutes or so).

I ride with a couple of FL State Master's champions, former low level pros, and I believe Joaquin's at least as strong as these guys. It's a shame that this bogarted data file throws more doubt on him; Joaquin, I hope it wasn't your doing.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that". I'm going to cook Thanksgiving desserts now and get ready to ride 85 miles to my sister's house for Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow.

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Kendall Frederick

Orange Park, FL

Well, really neither. That is, it will overwrite older data with newer data, but it doesn't wrap around and smoothly do so from the beginning. (OTOH, it never repeats entire blocks of data, either.)

Well, that would be a pretty good guess given the following sequence:

6:21:36

352 180 14.9
366 180 14.5
437 180 14.4
425 180 14.5
402 180 14.6
440 180 14.6
417 180 14.4

Then at 6:23:35--the exact same sequence. That particular power pattern is repeated at last 8 times (and I stopped counting after that).

could that have happened here then?

Man...now I really wish it was intentional.

That's funny--I was fully expecting Frank to quickly jump on that one! It doesn't matter, since the data is time stamped and he was at only 6:20 or something on the clock. But, to answer your question, it starts writing over the data at the beginning of the file.

"So far, I have no "data" that says I am faster or stronger on the bike because of PC's"

Don't you have a Computrainer? With you spreadsheets logging your miles, I find it hard to believe you have NO data pre-PC's on the Computrainer vs. post-PC's.

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

I'm wondering if it would have helped the results if they had shaved their legs with Occam's razor instead of something like Gillette. :)

-Jot

"Better" in you own mind perhaps to help quell some of the cognitive dissonance going on in there...but the more accurate terms are manipulated, or, simply faked.

I just "calls 'em as I sees 'em".



Hmmm...are these "possible other possibilities" somehow related to the "unknown unknowns" that Mr. Rumsfeld talked about one time? Just wondering...





Correct...and that's because cadence isn't used in the calculation of ANY of the other values. In fact, I normally don't even install the cadence pickup on my PT equipped bikes. I don't care about cadence.




Huh? The HR data is also fudged, so that means it's a problem with the PT? Wow...you really are grasping at straws, huh? If that is what makes the most sense to you, then I was wrong before about you appearing delusional. Actually, you are.

You're looking for a plausible reason for why he would do this? That's easy...how about simple entertainment value? People do odd things on the internet just for entertainment.

Frank, it's time to move beyond the "denial" stage and move into "anger". That will get you to "acceptance" just that much quicker.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Isn't that a funny thing about PCs? There's never any actual "before and after" power data to back up the claims....interesting.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I'm sorry...but IMO he's used up all of his "benefit of the doubt".

It's all a hoax.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof...and all we've ever seen in this whole fiasco is extraordinary hubris.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Tom, your logic is really getting in the way of my ST.com Soap Opera drama. :)

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HEDmafia.com

Don't you mean comic opera? ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yes, that too.

There you go again, letting your personal dislike for me get in the way. :)

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HEDmafia.com