Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
I despise what CeramicSpeed represents
Quote | Reply
http://www.velonews.com/...ain-lube-ever_446861



I'm sorry, but I dislike almost everything about CeramicSpeed. They have pushed the boundaries as far as ridiculous over-spending more than almost anybody else in this industry. The more we accept $500 RD pulley wheels, $1500 RD Cage replacements, $150 chains, $75 bottles of lube (that get you b/w 15-20 applications...total) the more we kill triathlon.

Furthermore, how laughable have these "journalistic" publications become? Anybody that thinks media (in general, and specifically in endurance sport) is here to provide objective data and information that allows you - the consumer - to make the best decisions...raise your hand...
Last edited by: jkhayc: Aug 30, 17 7:41
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why do you hate America?

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Last edited by: Morelock: Aug 30, 17 7:37
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
+10000
This is the culmination of marketing, bs, plus a sprinkling of science to make it all "plausible". 75$ lube...........
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm glad to see you get over this recent "subtle jab" period in your life. Welcome back!

Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got called out on here by their North America VP for criticizing them too much. I agree with you.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Morelock wrote:
Why do you hate America?

He never said he hates America and if you are saying that America is defined by extremism in consumption than I would disagree. That is not the America my ancestors fought for in the American Revolution. Marketing and materialism are a part of what America (and the world) have become today, but it is not what defines America. His complaints about CeramicSpeed are about CeramicSpeed and not in any way related to his views on the United States. I think it is unfair to associate the two.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Do they make a $500 piece of equipment that puts air in a tire tube? If not, they're not as bad as another company.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ben is the customer facing guy for what is essentially a marketing and packaging company. He should be congratulated for taking a niche bearing producer and turning it into a giant f***ing money factory.

He cannot argue the assertion that their products are absolutely ridiculous.
Last edited by: jkhayc: Aug 30, 17 7:48
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Agreed. SLF Motion and Enduro Bearings are making better products at reasonable prices. I've got Enduro Bearings on my bike. Blake at SLF Motion is doing awesome things with his company.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanrafaeltri wrote:
Morelock wrote:
Why do you hate America?


He never said he hates America and if you are saying that America is defined by extremism in consumption than I would disagree. That is not the America my ancestors fought for in the American Revolution. Marketing and materialism are a part of what America (and the world) have become today, but it is not what defines America. His complaints about CeramicSpeed are about CeramicSpeed and not in any way related to his views on the United States. I think it is unfair to associate the two.

I'm guessing that's pink font so pretty sure he is kidding / being sarcastic.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I do not equate Silca to CS. Silca makes a luxury product that they (mostly) market as such. In addition, they make less expensive products that are actually really quite good.

CS makes something that is pretty much a marketing ploy. They have capitalized on the brainwashing effect of "save 1w here, save 3w there" when you buy all our products that come in these great looking boxes at 80% margins.
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Leddy wrote:
Sanrafaeltri wrote:
Morelock wrote:
Why do you hate America?


He never said he hates America and if you are saying that America is defined by extremism in consumption than I would disagree. That is not the America my ancestors fought for in the American Revolution. Marketing and materialism are a part of what America (and the world) have become today, but it is not what defines America. His complaints about CeramicSpeed are about CeramicSpeed and not in any way related to his views on the United States. I think it is unfair to associate the two.


I'm guessing that's pink font so pretty sure he is kidding / being sarcastic.

Ah, I missed that. I think I need my second cup of morning coffee!!

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
Do they make a $500 piece of equipment that puts air in a tire tube? If not, they're not as bad as another company.

Dumb statement. The $500 pump is a halo product, more of a look what we can do, similar to the Cervelo P5-X. Every company does this.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
While I don't disagree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't think it's fair to single out one brand. This type of marketing has been going on for a long time (to varying degrees) from many companies - other bearing companies, wheel manufacturers, frame manufacturers, tire manufacturers, helmet/clothing manufacturers, etc.

It does seem that marketing of marginal performance gains has had a cumulative effect of fatigue on many triathlon consumers, or perhaps on the reputation of the sport. Again, I'm not pointing this at CeramicSpeed specifically (and many of the wattage gains claimed by these manufacturers are likely legitimate), but I think it points to a larger issue of the sport being perceived as a rich guy's sport. Or perhaps that triathlon is missing the point of adult athletic endeavors in general - i.e. personal development, socialization, fun, health, etc.

It's easy to say, "Just don't buy it if you don't like it." Clearly, this is true. The unfortunate part is that it seems many people have done exactly that, and moved on from the sport entirely. I was doing a bike fit for a woman a couple months ago who commented that she was just overwhelmed by all of the equipment (and turned off by the high prices) for a sport that she just didn't find to be enough fun to offset the costs and work required. She said that after her upcoming event she was going to sell her bike and get a stand-up paddle board.

The high-end customer will always be there (for products that you're referring to). And that's all good. I think there is a big void of products and marketing towards entry-level stuff, and trying to pull non-triathletes in to the sport.
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Meh, I just laugh to myself and shake my head. If people want to spend their money on this stuff, so be it. I've built several bikes using steel bearing everything and Squirt lube - still have that dreamy "hidden motor" free spinning drivetrain.

I also could never justify a Mercedes, but still think they are pretty sweet to look at.

Alex Arman

Strava
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gregk wrote:
I think there is a big void of products and marketing towards entry-level stuff, and trying to pull non-triathletes in to the sport.

And therein lies the problem with endurance/triathlon media. All the articles are about the latest $500 Wahoo climb simulator (that is additional to your $1200 Kickr, but the Climb actually looks pretty cool) or the $75 lube or the new $2500+ Zipp tubeless wheels. It's perceived of as a rich man's sport because it's completely marketed as such. And, in my own personal opinion, CeramicSpeed is one of the biggest offenders.
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
https://cyclingtips.com/...ch-coverage-day-one/



Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
CS makes something that is pretty much a marketing ploy. They have capitalized on the brainwashing effect of "save 1w here, save 3w there" when you buy all our products that come in these great looking boxes at 80% margins.

I think you've missed a zero or two there...
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Totally agree on the journalistic integrity point. As far as CermicSpeed: it's a classic case of caveat emptor.


Also, looks like the stiction problem was already fixed, and at a significantly lower price:

http://www.hotshotsecret.com/...nt=Ad%20group%20%231
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reminds me a little of the Denon ethernet cable that was selling for $1500 (sadly discontinued). At least I got some good laughs from the Amazon reviews for that one, no such joy from CeramicSpeed.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000I1X6PM
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
Furthermore, how laughable have these "journalistic" publications become? Anybody that thinks media (in general, and specifically in endurance sport) is here to provide objective data and information that allows you - the consumer - to make the best decisions...raise your hand...


i'm interested in knowing what you mean by this comment. can you amplify? i ask because we have a ceramic speed video on the site - which we published because of the value of the content to the reader - and we aren't getting any money (no money changed hands in either direction). do you think the velonews article is an advertorial (i.e., native content) that is simply not labeled as such?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Aug 30, 17 8:21
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The goal of "media" in general, including most triathlon media, is to get impressions. The more impressions a site/page gets, the better ad packages their sellers can sell. So, consequently, the expensive/crazy/weird stuff seems to get reported on the most because it will likely get the most eyeballs/impressions. It's a vicious cycle, because the boring stuff (inexpensive, straightforward, blase) doesn't get as much coverage because it cannot generate the same attraction, even though in the long run it would potentially be more valuable and viable for the industry as a whole.

This is my perception as an outsider. I do not think Slowtwitch falls into these aforementioned categories because, relatively speaking, its viewership is small. Plus, you get to decide on everything which is a benefit to being a small company.

Just seeing your edit as well with additional comments.

I have not watched that video, so can't comment on its quality or informative nature. I know that it's a maintenance video done by WhistlePig, but personally I don't feel the need to watch such videos.
Last edited by: jkhayc: Aug 30, 17 8:23
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
gregk wrote:
I think there is a big void of products and marketing towards entry-level stuff, and trying to pull non-triathletes in to the sport.


And therein lies the problem with endurance/triathlon media. All the articles are about the latest $500 Wahoo climb simulator (that is additional to your $1200 Kickr, but the Climb actually looks pretty cool) or the $75 lube or the new $2500+ Zipp tubeless wheels. It's perceived of as a rich man's sport because it's completely marketed as such. And, in my own personal opinion, CeramicSpeed is one of the biggest offenders.

I think at the end of the day, this just means that the sport will likely continue as a niche sport, unless the industry changes its behavior (which is a BIG ship to turn, not because it's actually a big ship, but because all of the companies act independently and rarely cooperate with each other).

Back when I was doing most of the tech writing for Slowtwitch, I remember contacting a manufacturer of a product that I thought was ideal for most real-world entry-level triathletes. The company is/was not positioned as a triathlon brand, but the product was a perfect fit. They responded to me by (politely) declining to participate or send product for review, because "triathlon just isn't our market". Yeah, but why not MAKE them your market? Or add them to your market? It was pretty baffling. This specific product has since been removed from their line-up - presumably due to low sales. You can lead a horse to water...
Quote Reply
Re: I despise what CeramicSpeed represents [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Totally agree on it being a ponderous ship to turn. But triathlon is facing a massive culling problem in the US. People have been talking about the decline in participation for years (mostly on this site) while the manufacturers continue to develop and market high end products with price points simply beyond the reach of most 20-30 year olds. There's also this vibe (I could be misguided on this) that if you don't HAVE many of these products you simply can't be competitive. "If you don't race with an optimized chain then what's the point of even racing?" I get that such statements can be used as hyperbole but... I think we all get where that path can lead.

There is no "right answer."

CeramicSpeed is making products that suit its business and selling them and what they deem a ''fair'' market price, which is entirely their prerogative. But the great thing about forums is that I can bitch and moan about it.
Quote Reply

Prev Next