Have you been increasing your bike training load during this time that you have failed to get faster?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Have you been at least 5 to 1 bike to run miles?

It's hard to compare times from a race year to year. It was windy this year, it slowed most people down.

Being passed on the bike and then passing people on the run isn't an indication that you had a poor bike, it's the opposite. If you passed them on the run that usually means they blew up on the bike

Define your IM marathon is much slower than your stand alone marathon. 30s per mile? 1min per mile?

It could very well be that your bike training doesn't suit your weaknesses. A trainer can help if you use it properly but having a solid bike training program would work well outdoors too.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Cycling is my strongest and the only discipline that I feel confident enough to even attempt to give advise on. I've done 6 century rides that were sub 5 hours. That said, take the following with a grain of salt as I'm not a certified coach or trainer.

Part of the reason you may be slowing on the bike is that your body is used to training at the same speed. Mix in some high intensity intervals to your workouts. If you have a power meter, one of my favorites is:

Warm up until you feel ready
10 x 2 min just below FTP followed 2 min @ Zone1
10 minute recovery until you are ready to go again then a ladder set
1 min above FTP with 1 min rest
2 min above FTP with 2 min rest
3 min above FTP with 3 min fest
Continue the ladder set until you can no longer complete the next time frame (don't go until you pass out or want to puke)
10 min recover with power in Zone 1

Usually at the end of this workout I'll need two days off the bike as it is very intense. It's great for building power though.

It might help if you outlined a typical 2 weeks - 1 month worth of riding so people know what you are doing. Otherwise everyone is just throwing darts in the dark.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Great stuff if your body can handle it.

The OP did not say his age or what injuries he has had.

I tried some harder interval work the other day and it messed up my knees. At my age, I keep coming back to my base belief. It is not how fast you were, or how fast you might be,
if you do not stay healthy at all times, you will be slower, period. But if you stay healthy over the years, your overall performances might be better than many
who were better, but just keep getting injured all the time so they never get to a races starting line at max conditioning.

So I am going back to the just stay in shape, being healthy, and let what happens happens.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You need 20+ min sets at 95-100% FTP. That set is neither here nor there. Yhe duration is way too short and the rest is way too long.

sorry but isn't he talking about an 8h time?

In my eyes he doesn't need FTP intervalls and especially no boring indoor intervall training but the good old dose of general saddle time.

If he trained on an indoor trainer 7 days a week like I do, then he has no excuses but to get better.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I am old fat and slow. I did tri's for 25 years and I have a similar experience to you. I cycle commute to work, plus I'd do a 2 hour ride one or two days before work, plus a 100-150 ride on the weekends. It's rolling to hilly in our area and I'd generally train with a purpose (ie try to sustain a med high pace, or hammer the hills or whatever). Regardless, my IM bike splits are as bad as they were when I just learned which end of the bike goes forward!

However, the one piece of advice I can pass on, that I've learned over the years, in a range of activities, is the concept of the "Big Week". All the gains I've made in various sports and in fact, many other activities, has been due to big weeks. In triathlon I have three types of big weeks. Most times when I do a big week, I take a week off work and focus just on the task at hand. A private training camp for 9 days can do wonders for you.

1. Technique big weeks. I do one sport only, and I focus just on techique. I use this mainly for swimming, but have done it cycling too. For cycling I changed from a grinder to a spinner in 9 days. I rode flat roads back and forth for a day or two, then moved to hills then long rolling sessions, all focussing just on spinning my cadence. I went from riding around 80RPM to averaging 105 RPM for an hour, in those 9 days. By exaggerating it for 9 days, I engrained it in my muscles and now I generally ride at 90-100RP depending on the ride.

2. Speed or endurance weeks (depending on season). As the name suggests, I either have hard short workouts (in one or all 3 sports) or lotsa long endurance stuff at easier pace.

3. As part of my IM buildup, about 10 weeks out from race day, I will have a 9 day week of long medium effort workouts. 6 weeks out, same again, but I lift the pace, with some speedworkouts thown in. 2-3 weeks before race day I have a week off work, and smash myself with a mix of killer hard workouts and race pace longer efforts. Even as a MOP guy, I can manage 45-50 hours of training in the 9 days, but only because between workouts, all I do is wash, eat and sleep. Swim 1-1/2 housr hard at squad, come home, wash, eat, nap. After the nap, watch some swim videos, then head to the beach for a two hour long swim at med hard pace, up and down the beach. Come home, wash, eat, nap before dinner. Etc. I find I can absorb a LOT of workload, but only if I rest enough in between workouts. I don't care how fast I go, for me it's all about punishing my useless body so I can recover stronger and (hopefully) faster. Of course a big week is always followed by a true recovery week. My last week before an IM I do absolutely NOTHING. I don't do a loosening 5km job, I don't try on my wetsuit or even swim my leg over a bike. By race day, I am fully recovered, and actually itching to race because I have so much pent up energy.

For your cycling, you may benefit from some big cycling weeks to get back that speed? Whatever you have been doing (cycling wise) hasn't had the desired results of cycling improvement, so you need to try something new. Big weeks could be it. For big cycling weeks, you may want to have say every second ride be a brick, with say a 4-5km run off the bike. Focus on say a long ride (5-6 hours) then lie on the couch. Next day a 2 hour hammer fest, followed by a 5km run then a nap. Repeat that 3-4 times in a row, and see what happens. Sure, at the end of the week you will be tired and probably slower than day 1, but that doesn't matter. The desire is to punish your body for a week in the hope for long term benefits.

Or you could buy a new bike

Gotta go, time for my nap :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

The purpose of any endurance training plan is to increase FTP. The type of training I've mentioned offers a very large turn on investment.

fair enough he might just risk to die due to the boredom

but I still think for someone riding 8h it is more than just raising FTP and I don't think you can learn to ride your bike well on a trainer.

sure everyone who is just after a very large return of investment should just be doing as much at 95% FTP as possible I fully agree with you on that.

but there are other options as you might know. they might not be as sexy and they might take 5+ years to really pay off but as long as the journey is fun what's to lose?
Do you think someone can becomes a good bikerider doing FTP intervalls?

just ride a lot, than ride some more, ride with friends, when you feel good try to drop them at every hill, when you feel bad just take it easy, look around when it is nice and enjoy the surroundings, when the whether is horrible still ride and enjoy the hot shower afterwards and feeling your toes again even more (and you might have some epic stories with your mates)

then when you reached 95% of your potential do some 20 minutes intervalls on the trainer to add the last 5%

Strawman much?

I watch lots of movies, and limit my time to an hour per session

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

For any reasonable advice from anyone you would need to provide a little more information.
You gave a swim time, which is real terms is in the top 1/3 of most IMs. So you have swim fitness.
And although you mention you can run, you don't mention your marathon time. More than or less than 5hrs?
But that gives no clue about weight, height, power.

Lets suppose you weigh 200 lbs and put out 140 watts, (hills and wind notwithstanding), that will bring you in about 8 hours
(that's assuming you were on a TT bike and stayed down)

There's all kinds of permutations.
But the obvious response from above is on that basis you need more power.
Without information that's merely a guess.
If you are 6'6" or 5'5" it changes everything.
If you are as old as me, that'll slow you down.

There are many here who have enormous knowledge about IM bicycling,
but they can't give you advice without basic information.

Having a professional fitting just means you will get there without blisters.
Riding inside or outside, it all works to improve you, some more than others.
Give us a clue.

Dave have you ever thought you might be successful in your racing in spite of yourself?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

However, the one piece of advice I can pass on, that I've learned over the years, in a range of activities, is the concept of the "Big Week". All the gains I've made in various sports and in fact, many other activities, has been due to big weeks.

"More is more" and "Just do more" are cliches, are slight over simplifications, but, not that far from reality.

More volume, for many, done the right way, will almost always yield good to great performance gains.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Nope

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

But too much gets folks hurt and they are not racing.

Everytime I hurt myself from doing too much I ask why did I do that? I told the wife last night that I do this because I love the people, challenge, and staying in shape. Being faster is an ego thing and not on my list.
My secret over the years has been to stay healthy, and I need to make sure I keep this focus as I continue to get older. Otherwise, if the other way was better, way are there SO few older folks who can race,
or race with any decent run speed? And older is over 55.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I've done well off of big weeks as well

jaretj

But too much gets folks hurt and they are not racing.

Everytime I hurt myself from doing too much I ask why did I do that? I told the wife last night that I do this because I love the people, challenge, and staying in shape. Being faster is an ego thing and not on my list.
My secret over the years has been to stay healthy, and I need to make sure I keep this focus as I continue to get older. Otherwise, if the other way was better, way are there SO few older folks who can race,
or race with any decent run speed? And older is over 55.

.[/quote]

And some folks do this to get faster as a challenge too (or ego as you describe) and while getting hurt is not what people want either, sometimes I would rather push myself than get the same times over and over. The OP has asked for the recipe to apple pie and you are giving him a meat loaf recipe. In most of these threads like this you continually say the same things....did it ever occur to you that others can do more training than you and not get hurt?

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

If you are using a compact crankset, build up the leg muscle so you can spin a proper double 53/39 or 54/42 TT crank set. Once again, build up the leg muscles. Have fun. stay away from boring work outs; i.e. hill repeats, trainer work outs, following some silly interval recipe, etc. suffer more and have fun.

My wife doesn't have any leg muscles, and can TT faster than you on a compact crank Mr Winky.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter