https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8tV8cWeY3Y

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I've taken a couple of laps around the block on a Specialized Turbo e-bike. They are a gas (figuratively). Most legitimate (i.e. pre-built, store bought) e-bikes are speed limited to about 25 mph (40 km/h, give or take) and they only assist, they don't let you ride with doing no work at all. So what you get is a bike that pedals like it weighs about five pounds but it handles like every bit of the 40 to 50 pound behemoth that it is. If you want to go fast you still have to work at it, it just multiplies the available power by a factor of two.

The thing is that you should not compare them to your regular bike because there just is no comparison. Having said that, Greg Lemond's adage still holds true: It doesn't get any easier - you just go faster.

The legitimately best thing about e-bikes is that they are an enabler for your slightly-less-than-fit friend, or your SO that hasn't spent all winter in the basement staring at the TrainerRoad display. They can go with you and you can each get in a workout that suits your relative abilities without leaving one of you miles behind.

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Less is more.

It has legitimate use and potential for commuters. It has zero benefits for fitness as it becomes a hazard and is already against the rules to ride on most any greenway or public bike trail including off road public spaces.

Why? Even at 25mph you are grossly exceeding a bike path speed and a speed that 99.9% of riders can’t even hold in a time trial.

A commuter or road user, who cares.

If not commuting.......It’s a toy. Let’s call a spade a spade. Even the marketing show them as fun toys.

dont be so smug. I rode a few miles with a guy today and we got to chatting..guess what? He has Parkinson's and the e-bike keeps him going

This x 1000. A couple of summers ago our family did a five day rent-a-bike trip in Europe. One of the couples that was on the same route as us, had the guy riding a road bike and his wife rode an e-bike. Thanks to this equalizer, they were both able to enjoy the route, at equal speeds, while they each worked at an effort level that was about right for them.

There are lots of riders, old and new, that for one reason or another cannot otherwise keep up with the rest of their group. E-bikes are a way to include them, and because it includes, it will improve their overall fitness level more than if they did not ride at all (which, for many, is the alternative).

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Less is more.

Hello Big Endian and All,

Agreeing with your point:

and eBikes are coming to Roadies group rides:

http://www.northcountycycleclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=2528.0

eBikes could open up a lot of good fun exercise to those that are old or infirm.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

My mum rides an e-bike.

It's great for her. If you have good legs, push the pedals yourself.

EDIT:

Now that I've read it, damn that's a good opinion piece. Worth every word.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Great blog, thank you for linking! That guy has talent.

I think e-bikes are awesome. Anything that gets people off their couches and out of their cars is good. Good for their health and good for the environment. And more bikes on the road means roads that are better designed for bikes and drivers who are more aware of cyclists which is good for all of us. It would be great if everybody was young, healthy and fit enough to use a regular bike, but they're not. My local bike club caters pretty well for social and slower riders and they have plenty of riders in their 50s and 60s, but it's noticeable that there are very few over 70 and AFAIK none over 80. E-bikes could change that. I also see quite a few e-bikes on my commute and have personally met a couple of riders for whom an e-bike was a gateway drug to doing their commute on a regular bike.

There are a few assholes on modified e-bikes flying around at 30mph and cutting people up, but there are always assholes and we shouldn't allow their selfish behaviour to ruin it for everybody else, any more than the few idiots who jump red lights should be allowed to ruin cycling for those of us who ride lawfully. And yes, it's probably going to put another nail into Strava leaderboards, but from what I can see there is already rampant cheating on Strava, from people recording segments while in their cars to doctoring their gpx file. Even the legit times are often fairly meaningless as weather can have a huge influence on times, as can riding in a group. A few more idiots using e-bikes to try and impress their followers with a new KOM isn't going to make much difference to me. If I want to measure my personal fitness I do an FTP test, if I want to compare myself to others I enter a race or go on a hilly club ride.

I'm hoping Cancellara wil chime in this time

He good one thing right for sure. "Holland is alot like the Netherlands" The only downside I see is alot of ebikers are folks who cannot afford other transport and thus ride their ebikes in places that just are not safe for bikes just to get around. They ride them around in the dark in heavy traffic etc. Also heavily loaded down with groceries. A bag on each handlebar isn't the safest.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I'm a good experiment regarding cycling fitness. Since my last IM in Oct. (4.42 bike split !, sorry needed to get that in there) I have exclusively rode my e-bike, no zwift, sufferfest, no rides with mtb, race, x, tri-bike only about 1h50min commuting per day with my e-bike. E-bike is nice heavy thing with max 800W of extra power and limited to 45km/h (28mph).

I might even do a ftp test to see what has happened with that, I really dont know.

I said above I felt it had zero fitness value. I always get the same first response about it helping people with a disability or need.

Let me clarify, I can agree with that.

I’m talking about fitness value for able bodied individuals looking to keep up with higher ability individuals.

Netherlands and Holland are the same country...

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

Whooosh

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Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding it hurts.

I want one like Cancellera that can't be noticed.

Define able bodied? I have a friend who is 10kg overweight and very unfit. She would struggle to ride a normal bike to and from work. With an bike she could commute to work easily, which will give her 30 mins, twice a day, of gentle physical exercise. I don't believe that is not a better for her than being sat in a car for an hour a day?

This reminds me of an ad for some app I saw today that will "give you your ftp without the dreaded ftp test!" Isn't being able to go through a gruelling workout kind of the point, you know, to train for a race that should be a maximum effort? Come on. Admittedly very different than training for general fitness, but you dont need ftp for that...

I don’t recall if I posted this, but a few years ago I was riding up a fairly steep fire road when I heard an odd noise behind me. A few seconds later, a somewhat hefty young woman went by me on a bike with saddle bags on the rear. As I was processing this, I heard the same noise again. Shortly, I was passed by morbidly obese guy on a fat tire bike that had a black brick above the rear tire. For a split second, I wondered what the hell......Then it came to me.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Since nobody is bothering to read the entirety of my posts, I'll quote it and bold something in your post here.

Myself: "It has legitimate use and potential for commuters."

Isn't that exactly what you were saying? That's the definition of a commuter.

You're not going to get a legit serious B or A or hammer group ride to accept an e-bike. You don't belong there, regardless of what is holding you back, if you can't do it on your own. Sorry, that's life. You're not going to give Gaimon a motor so he can keep up with Cancellara's motor.

I also have said in another topic on here about e-bikes that I'm ok with it on "pub group no-drop rides" or if you're on a public road, alone or with a friend. That's between you and local laws, not me. Even then, I'm just OK with it. Why? There were already a touch of wheels and a crash EVERY week in the one I used to do before I felt it wasn't a good mix of abilities.

As soon as somebody "isn't allowed" to participate in something, out come the claws. I'm not saying you can't buy one and ride it tomorrow on a public road with your buddy. Or commute to work. Please, do so.

I think the only real points of disagreement are:
-should e-bikes with a 25mph limit be allowed on greenways
-should e-bikes with a 25mph limit be allowed on public mtb trails (private is up to the owner)
-should B, A, or hammer group rides allow e-bikes

My opinion on the first item is, yes, if they limit them to 15mph instead.
My opinion on the second item is, yes, if they limit them to 12mph instead.
On the last item, totally forget it. I'd leave the group. Still, up to the group as a whole though.

People always assume that the hardcore roadies want to keep people from getting into cycling because they can't get off the couch and do the TdF tomorrow. No, not at all. But that's the assumption a lot of e-bike advocates jump to when "restrictions" on e-bike usage comes up.

The reality is, we'd love you to get out and ride. The reality is also though that certain equipment and abilities fit certain situations and rules. And that's life, not a roadie being a dick.

If you need to get out and exercise and your local greenway "bans" e-bikes, don't argue with the "dick roadie" about it. I don't ride the greenway on my road bike. I jog it while my children putter along with me on their bikes. The rules are because some dick idiots rolling through at 25mph on an e-bike hit somebody's kid or dog one time and now e-bikes got banned. That's also why roadies who can cruise 20mph shouldn't really ride busy greenways either.

If you have beef with that, take it up with the idiot who was the source of the rules. In other words, the e-bike user, not the roadie.

I'm not keeping your friend with MS from riding an e-bike or saying they shouldn't. He/she should do so. We're bringing up a very minority of target customers to try to make an example of something that's not even the main part of the argument.

The main part of the argument is that in the US hardly anybody commutes by bicycle. Top that with the percentage of actual usage of e-bikes in the US versus the usage of them by people who could really really benefit from it..........and the facts don't align with the butt hurt in this thread. 75% of e-bike purchasers are not MS patients or

It's very anecdotal, but when I'm out running with the kids the e-bikes I've seen were:
-one ridden by a thin/fit guy in cycling kit coming back from a local mtb trail
-a 55ish y/o dude who talked to me and said "I love to get out to my picnic spot at 25mph on the greenway and back in time so I can do xyz each morning".......yeah......pretty much using it like a moped
-another a 250ish lb dude flying about 20mph by on a fat bike looking e-bike, totally unncecessary

The rest were legit commuters. A guy wearing his hi-vis vest with loaded saddle bags religiously going to/from work from somewhere in my neighborhood. I've seen a few of them.

In the US, for the vast majority of customers though........it's a freaking toy.

Great article - thanks for posting.

My inner-triathlete is definitely protesting as I'm passed by an e-bike on my commute, but my rational brain eventually prevails and appreciates that one more person on two wheels makes the world a bit safer for me and generally better for everyone.

Here in the UK e-bikes are limited to the speeds you suggested (or near enough as the limit is 25 km/h). This leaves you with a really heavy and expensive piece of metal that allows you to travel 2-3mph slower that most people would average during a commute bike. I agree it solve the safety concerns but I think its a poor use of the technology.

Are there people who still benefit from e-bikes? Definitely but they aren't using them as an alternative to a normal bike. Everyone I know who commutes on an e-bike is older and uses it as an alternative for the bus and metro system. The big catch is that because the bikes are limited to such a slow speed there is a sizable chunk of the population who still use other forms of public transit rather than switch to e-bikes.

I believe the solution is to regulate e-bikes based on total power output rather than speed. That is an e-bike should be able to provide 200 or 250 watts max and speed shouldn't come into play. My experience is that due to the weight and position of e-bikes 200 watts wouldn't even get you to 20mph. At the same time it would still allow a commuter to travel at normal speeds easier than they could on a normal bike. Plus most bikes already have a power cap (some are just stupidly high) so the technology is there to put the restrictions in place. My gut instinct is that politicians/the public doesn't understand wattage through so laws based on power will never get passed.

This came across my facebook feed today:

Peter Sagan in Specialized Turbo Vado video:
https://www.facebook.com/...s/10156496839904467/

At the Toronto bike show a couple weeks ago, there were numerous vendors and manufacturers of e-bikes. Didn't notice anyone buying one though.

@Kid

Exactly... I have zero problem with eBikes until the rider doesn't realize how much it assists. I was going up a canyon road last fall pushing 280 watts and some guy in his late 40s or 50s comes riding up along side me as if we're racing fairly. He was on a mountain bike version with electric assist. He literally said, "this is a heavy bike, the motor just balances out the difference in weight between our two bikes" (i.e. I was on a road bike).

So, again, I have no problem with eBikes... I have a problem with the people who ride them like douchebags. I wonder how many Strava KOMs he's attained?