I think DL is a great idea and that ITU should continue with it. Most of the major championship have such dense AG fields that is almost DL already. Having AGs out of the aero bars and on road bikes would most likely make racing safer, not more dangerous.

I think the biggest question a lot of us have are legality of bikes, which are going to be legal for DL racing.

I'm hoping they follow ITU rules and make it road bikes only. But then for people racing both Oly and sprint AG Nationals that means bringing 2 bikes or compromising in the Oly on road bike made aero.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Completely disagree. I think AG draft legal is a terrible idea for two reasons: danger from poor bike handling among triathletes and logistics of having two bring two bikes of doing both draft legal and non-drafting race. Traveling with 2 kids and 1 bike is tough enough, no way I will travel with 2 bikes. This will be my first worlds so I will see first hand how bad the drafting is, but at USAT AG Nats the past two years I have not encountered any drafting whatsoever. If there is a draft legal option at Nats or Worlds in the future, I will not be doing it. Sucks as I doing the Oly/Sprint double this year and may not be able to do that in the future if this change is made.

The impression I got from Rob is in his opinion, what this means is a long ways off from being worried about. He was not at all supporting getting rid of the
NDL AG racing at Nationals, and I assume worlds. I was not left with any feeling how he thought a DL AG worlds team would happen. Was not clear
USAT would have anything at Nationals. There might be a seperate small event from this only.

Bottom line, I would not waste really any time doing anything related to this until a LOT more is agreed upon by the federations and the ITU. Maybe more will come out of their meetings this week, but sure nothing to lose sleep over at the moment.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Whether the Worlds sprint race goes to DL or not, it would be dumb on USAT's part to remove the non-draft sprint from Nationals. They'll always be able to fill that race to make money off it whether it qualifies athletes for worlds or not.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I wouldn't be surprised if they make it at a different venue all together. I think it could possibly draw a bigger start list that way and then the only logistical problem would be if you qualified for both ND and DL worlds. Then you have to bring 2 bikes there. I am sure there are other venues that would be willing to hold the race. There are a few other draft legal races for AG'ers that are pretty small and this would be a great opportunity for them. Who knows, maybe even REV3 would incorporate it into one of the REV3 rush events.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

I agree.

I talked to Rob again this morning who had just gotten back from the ITU DL AG meeting. I was just left with the impression there are just
SO many questions at this point that anything going forward is possible so I sure would not do anything that makes any assumptions
on what may or may not happen.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I have a pretty out there idea. Make it like the Youth Olympic Games. 1 athlete per AG per country. That way the overall field is limited in numbers and you make it competitive for the people who actually want to do it. Then you could really just run the same DL rules as they have for the elites and all this "we cant travel with 2 bikes" is solved.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

It was briefly mentioned at our meeting.

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___________________________________________
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Let me be blunt...So the world of triathlon revolves around you and because it's a remote possibility that you MIGHT have 2 bikes (????), it's a bad idea. That's the attitude that's hindered the DL format in the US for decades AND hurt our athletes at the Olympics. A age group DL race is simply another option. Full stop. Has little impact on the vast majority of events across the US (besides, DL races for age groupers take place in other countries. Having lived in Middle Earth for 8 years, I was able to race in a dozen or more DL races. Some had fields of a few hundred.)

What is it about American Slowtwitchers who are so opposed to DL races?

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

They somehow think that they won't be able to compete in something different. They also blow the bike handling issue out of proportion.

Most people will still be racing no draft, this is just another option, they just don't get it. It's going to grow the sport not kill it.

jaretj

Interesting comments. When I was talking with Rob on options, he commented on some that the bikers would be upset. I then countered that how about drafting in the swim or wetsuits, swimmers are upset. Or, or, or. Bottom line is a lot of folks in our sport can bike. But since they cannot swim well, and or run well, they are just looking our for their personal interest. I asked Rob why the 10mm wetsuits were made illegal, when folks like me bought one when USAT said they would be legal. I said from what heard it was because a few on the board were swimmers and thought it made for cheating. I said everyone had the chance to buy the new wetsuits, just like disc wheels, etc. No way are these folks being neutral.

Told him I have done a number of DL races and love them. So many have never done a DL triathlon but sure have all the reasons why there are bad.

So no matter what you do, folks seem to bias their answers to what their strengths are. I just smile when I hear these comments on why DL is so bad and dangerous. Look at a lot of these folks race result times and one might find the real reasons they are against.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It is not that I don't think there is a place for DL, it is that I don't want the sprint non-drafting to disappear at either USAT nationals or worlds. If they just add the DL and keep the non-drafting, then all the better for triathlon. I want to continue doing the Only/Sprint double at worlds and nats for the foreseeable future.

My major reason for not liking DL is the higher possibility of crashes, the logistics of 2 bikes is really a secondary issue and something I could afford if I so desired. As someone whose job depends on the health of my hands, I do not participate in crits or DL Tris to protect myself. If I crash in a non-drafting Tri, it is most likely my own fault and something I can avoid by riding smart. Whereas in a crit or DL Tri, there is a very good chance it would be due to someone else's error and I can't take that chance. So as a result, DL is not an option for me.

I've done a fair share of crits and group riding (I have a family and can't afford to be badly injured) and I can tell you that the risks are exaggerated. But anyway, that's not the main point. As others mentioned above, I don't think eliminating non-draft is in the cards. I'm not an insider, but I think the draft-legal concept would be an addition, probably at a different venue, etc. as mentioned above. I also suspect that, in the US at least, people interested in draft-legal will be in the minority for the foreseeable future.

If draft-legal gains some traction in the US, triathlon could become a bit like running. On the one hand, road runners, with a very competitive minority but also a culture tending to emphasize longer events, personal accomplishments (completing an event), lifestyle and mass participation. This is the dominant culture. On the other hand, age-group track events, with a lot of post-collegiate types (non-elites) who still want to be fast - relative to age group - making the environment more competition oriented. This latter group is a niche. There's certainly some crossover between groups - the fast age-group marathon runner will go and run a fast mile at an all-comers meet - but there are also different groups and cultures.

Hey that's a fair point. Here locally in the Triangle of NC, we have a pretty good group of triathletes. We also have some that will use your explaination about the safety of it, but yet then 2 days a week they'll do a group ride in the aerobars (the irony seems to get lost there).

That's one of the drawbacks to DL racing for sure, it's that you sorta lose that control of surroundings, especially when you really have to commit to it. To be good at DL racing you have to commit to sucking wheels 2'' off a guys wheel, or your compromising your own ability to race wheel.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I'd be shocked if they removed the non-drafting sprint race, at either Nationals or Worlds. To many entry fees to be made (or lost) from those events, particularly if they think that numbers will be reduced (which it clearly seems like it will, at least in the US). Seems like it would be a nice addition to the program, for both championships, and no reason they couldn't keep it on the same course, for logistical purposes.

There will be plenty of people who won't want to try draft legal, and plenty who will. I'm sure draft legal fields will be smaller, but that's fine. Also, based on the wider variety of swim abilities in age-groups, doubt that massive draft packs will be forming. Would expect more smaller mini-packs. I like the idea of smaller qualifying fields per country, but also have to be realistic about the profitability of allowing more athletes. I remember the last time worlds were in the US, and only 12 age-group competed, and no sprint race. Next year, possibility of FIFTY per age-group in Chicago, between sprint and oly, not to mention aquathlon. They aren't letting those addition 13/AG to improve quality of competition.

The addition of the sprint to Nationals/Worlds has been great, and hopefully they'll add the DL race, to make AG racing even more dynamic. It might also provide another developmental opportunity for late-comers in their 20's, to get some experience in DL events, if they aren't quite up to national/ developmental team level.

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John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence

Been interesting talking to other countries athletes and what they have heard from their federation. Many just do not get hung up on drafting like many do in the US.

What you are thinking is what I heard from Rob. But clearly, the ITU had not involved all the federations and thought out all the details before they made their comment. I also agree stopping NDL sprint would be real dumb since so many are doing it.

Another discussion with countries I have done is relating to Aqua bike which has really taken off in the US. But most other countries it has not. I suggested
to Rob that they need to add Aqua bike to the AG nationals to make it a big deal. Having a separate nationals, IMO, for Aquabike just makes it look like a second class race.

So bottom line lots of possible changes, expansions might be coming.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I'm doing Aquabike Nationals this weekend, and after racing in Milwaukee last year, not expecting much of a championship vibe... or level of competition.

Would be great if it they could make get aquabike/ aquathlon into a bigger deal, with real USAT Championship set-up. Not sure how the logistics would work, to add more events to nationals, but it would surely make it more competitive. If they were to split Sprint and OIy Distance nationals, could pair up the "aqua" nationals with each. Would obviously eliminate the sprint/oly double, as a possible negative, for races clearly not as important for most people.

Also, if they keep non-drafting sprint race and add draft-legal sprint race, perhaps they could add that to the Junior/ Youth Championships, depending on the expected field sizes, and if they'll race multiple age-groups in same waves. Would be hard to run all age-groups in separate waves, on a circuit-style draft-legal type course, as you'd get too much intermingling of groups. Or if they did add DL Sprint, could run sprint nationals together and put "aqua's" with Oly-distance.

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John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence

They have done the aquathon and tri at the same event. I did both at Portland. Hardly anyone did the Aquathlon.

I asked by Tim and Rob about adding the aquabike to nationals to make it a bigger deal. They had some concerns on how to make it work, but I offered solutions.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Agreed that having them at same venue doesn't guarantee field size. I did aquathlon/Oly double in Missouri, when aqua- was first. I know a bunch of people who didn't want to do before race. At that time didn't have sprint at same site. I think if they would have had aqua- day after it would have been better attended, but still not a huge field. Did they run aquathlon before tri in Portland?

Was happy to see that they'll be sending off the waves of Aquabike first, at REV3 this weekend (before half, that is).

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John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence

I was at the airport in Edmonton getting ready to check in when the person behind me had a ITU jacket on. So I started to talk to him and he told me
he was on the ITU executive board. So I asked about the AG DL racing. He said it was going to be an experiment and would be for like younger folks.
I said but that is not what the ITU told Dan for his article, etc. He said he would get back to the ITU technical committee to try and get things cleared up.
So Dan, assuming I heard him correctly, and I asked multiple times if what I had heard him say was correct, you might want to get an update
from the ITU as to what is going on with ITU AG DL thoughts.

The more folks I talked with during Edmonton, the more I just do not see this for now being anything that seems will take away the existing AG NDL sprint stuff.

I also asked him about would the ITU consider putting the Aquabike at worlds.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

In terms of younger, do you think he was referring to juniors and aspiring elites, or some other more broad age range?

It really seems like the draft legal announcement was made well in advance of getting all the ducks in a row.

I thought I heard like 19 year olds. I got nothing from him that he thought it was for ALL AGers, etc. This is why I made the point
multiple times he needed to get back with the ITU and get things clear since a huge mess has been started by the ITU
and it impressions are wrong, they need to get fixed, ASAP.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It would be nice to get clarification sooner rather than later, as it will factor in to my race plans next season.

Were there any rumblings about a location for 2016 world's or when the location might be announced?