That's in a way too bad, as I think Alta is a perfect location to keep the mass start, better even than Tempe. Start line was HUGE and you could place yourself anywhere along that line depending on your level of comfort. A lot of people were even still on the beach when the gun went off.

Not sure it will have a positive effect on drafting due to the rollers/climbing, and the really bad drafting comes at mile 60 ish anyway

Hopefully they do it well. I've done my share of mass starts and think they're highly overrated as an "iconic" element of triathlon.

I did Chattanooga in 2015 and they do the rolling start and it was a wetsuit optional race. I chose not to wear one (knowing my body and I only have a full sleeve suit I would have burnt up in it).

I liked the execution, do not like the reduced finish time for those that are on the cuff about finishing in time (not an issue for me personally but understand it is for some).

I also did notice at some point in the bike I was getting passed by groups of blatant drafters (there was agroup of 3-4 that were going back and forth with me, but they never seemed to get off the wheel in front of them (thats more of a rule violation then rolling start), but I wonder how many people wore a wetsuit and intended to work together to draft and pass no wetsuit wearing athletes on the bike.

I think the biggest issue you will have will be the drafters intentionally doing it, but again thats more a lack of rule enforcement then anything else.

I agree. By far the most comfortable mass start swim I've done. I see the value of it in other places but not sure it's necessary here.

Personally I agree, I like that deep water start, for people who started out there it involved a certain amount of forethought on positioning and tactics. And to be honest what it does is move the good (or reasonably prepared) swimmers start position back to the "not so experienced swimmers" start position, IE the beach. In my view I guess the debate is whether or not that is "safer" for the group as a whole.

In terms of drafting…I think you did that race in 2013? Yes it was pretty bad with 2500 people and 100 spots (so very high density at the front end) In 2014 and 2015 with less athletes (1500-1700) and less spots it was a lot cleaner, IMO one of the cleaner or more honest IM's on the schedule.

Maurice

Yes, first year in Whistler and there were lots of slots... Glad to hear it was better. Still one of my favorite race venues

I did it in both '13 and '14. The drafting in 2013 in the Pemberton Flats towards the pointy end of the AG field was absolutely ridiculous. It was a 30 mile drag race through there. 2014 was very clean.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I've done the mass start in Whistler and the rolling start in Lake Tahoe, to be honest I didn't feel too much of a difference to my race. I enjoy the rough and tumble of the mass start, but Whistler is a big enough start line that people were well spread out for the most part before the gun goes off. It didn't take long to find some clean water and even with a two loop swim, there wasn't a lot of congestion until the last turn on the 2nd loop. Tahoe start was very well executed and the field was nicely strung out during the 2 loops.

So from my take, I'm not sure it takes away much from the race itself from a performance point of view as I didn't see much drafting (2014), however it does mess up trying to keep track of your competition during the race, and if it means a lot to you, the finish line picture with the wrong clock time.

Greeeeat... super excited to not know what place I'm in during the run!

I'm so glad this is my last year in the sport. **NOT PINK**

I did 2 rolling starts last year (Texas and Tahoe) which were awesome. At Tahoe, I started hyperventilating in the cold and thin air and after 200m, signalled a kayak and hung off the side of it for a bit to calm down. I had swam the day before with zero hyperventilating but it was mid day in 80F versus morning at 39F air temp....I was glad it was a rolling start. Also there was zero drafting on the bike at Tahoe....it was beyond awesome. Texas I have done in the past as mass start and this year as rolling start and I found out of T1 the riding was a lot "cleaner". I support the rolling start at Texas with 75 KQ slots on the line.

I did the "semi mass start in South Africa" (2 waves half and half) last year and mass start in Whistler. South Africa goes to rolling start this year as does Whistler. I am torn on both because I see no reason to thin out either start since both are wide enough and there is not a ton of drafting out of T1 in either. Where fields are small enough and start is wide enough, I would like to see the mass start sustained....also makes for better head to head battle with peers in the age group. In rolling start you have to basically add 15-20 min after your finish and wonder if anyone who started way back is virtually ahead. When the fields are thin, I don't see the point of that...in larger fields, with narrow starts, but all means....rolling start. At Whistler no need at all.

Why wait? Quit today. With 9 IMs and 7 mass starts under my belt, I think mass starts are fine whenever the starting field is under 1500 participants. And if you are true traditionalist, perhaps we should limit the field size to just 12. You can get pretty close to that number in a HITS race if you are so inclined. Meanwhile, the rolling start is the right move for super large fields, and helps space out the bike field and reduce drafting. You cannot simultaneously be in favor of a mass start and less drafting.

Thinking about it... being a normal human being who doesn't dedicate every second to this sport sounds pretty nice.

Last year I did 2 full distance IM -- Canada and Arizona

Canada was a mass start and Arizona was a rolling start

I underestimated my swim speed and seeded too far back in IMC, i had expected there to be a lot more sub-hour swimmers. It took a couple of minutes to get to clean water.

The funny thing was, IMC, being my first full distance race, I was a nervous wreck... until my feet go in the water. Once that happened, all the worry and stress was over; i just had to Swim Bike Run my way to a life goal


In Arizona, the cannon went off for the age group start and I had what felt like an eternity in the queue waiting to get into the water. The dry start was MUCH more stressful to me and those around me.

People weren't prepared for the jump-and-go, there was a bunch of people immediately past the stairs washing out goggles, adjusting wetsuits, etc...

There was a fair bit of bumping for the first couple of minutes then it was fine (until i caught the group that seeded themselves at the front to ensure that they got the full 17 hours... that was like preceding wave in an age group wave start)

I don't think there was less contact in IMAZ then in IMC


As an aside, I had issues in the swim on both races and ended up at the timing mat a 1:13 on both (I seeded myself in the 1:10-1:20 group)

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I do the same thing as them, just slower

I think I could use that as a reason to start late and ride through the field :)

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___________________________________________
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
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Don't forget, you'll have to swim over a lot of people, or do you plan on sculling for 3.8k? Oh wait, you probably scull faster than half the field.

Liability issue:
- they start a swim safe program
- pilot different swim safe programs
- run majority of races seeded swims
- the one race or two that are mass starts have a fatality


Suit: why was this race not swim safe initiated? I mean some lawyer will se an opportunity there right?

Create continuity across all races mitigates risk.

This is my opinion. And no one cares....

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@rhyspencer

There is also the appeal to those who fear the swim and the swim safe program gives them a bit more confidence. With Whistler being on the wrong side of the bucket list style of race (not pan flat and has weather variations), it is at risk of dying like Tahoe and St. George, so I would guess this is as much a marketing effort to bring in that group.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Totally agree

So let's bring it back to Penticton!!! Oh never mind ......

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@rhyspencer

I wonder if it went back to Penticton, I hope they do keep a 70.3 in Whistler. I think the main problem is too many races in the same time. They should have put Vineman in May or early June. Putting in Vineman in competition with all the other continental IM's seems like a dumb move since they can have a race in California 9-10 months a year.

Could they do Penticton mid June?

I have swam in Skaha on May long….for about 3 minutes ;-)

My feeling is that Whistler is big enough that they don't really need Ironman (compared to say Crank Works or the Yoga festival)…I don't get the feeling (pure anecdote and personal opinion) that it is 100% supported by all the stake holders.

Maurice

No. Lake too cold.

Per Dev's post above....I agree & I've said from year one the best solution is whistler 70.3 in July, IM Penticton August.

But now WTC has Victoria June that sells out to feed into Whistler and Coure D'Alene August which is a 5 hr drive from PEN. Of course, Cour D'Alene is now struggling registrations too. Point being, WTC doesn't need Penticton so unless the carrot is worth it I can't see it happening.

I also think with the growth in traffic in the Okanagan what Mike and his team are doing to bike course is necessary. I don't ride the IMC full loop much living here. The back highway behind Richters is busy. Certainly much more than even 10 years ago.

I too feel Whistler is rolling to a dead end Which is why I will probably race it this year!

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@rhyspencer

I think it's going to be the other way. Penticton will return to WTC a year or two after the LC ITU stuff Challenge is doing this year and next. So 2019 will see Penticton coming back as a branded 70.3. They will keep Whistler as a full. WTC is going to have to juggle things around on the schedule. I think they are about to find out that having all their races basically in a 3.5 month period from end of July to mid November is dumb. Look at the Couer d'Alene thread. Apparently not a lot of people are signing up for the Aug date. Next year the gap is even worse. IMTX in April and then nothing until last week of July. Really???

Anyhoo... I would love to see a 70.3 in Whistler but I'm not sure how they could make the bike course work. The iconic part of that course is the Pemberton to Whistler climb. You really can't have 40 of the 56 miles being that part of the course. So they would have to use some permutation of the first half of the IM course. Which is certainly no picnic but it's not the iconic part of the course.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

You could do 1 loop 45K out towards Pemberton and back. Or you could do the climb towards Callahan and back that gives you 52K if I recall and then you have 38K left so 19K down towards Pemberton and turn at a safe point (wherever that is) and back. Then bring the 70.3 WC to Whistler!

If you do take it out to Pemberton and back the vast majority of the course ends up going down and back up. Not sure how appealing it is to coast for a bunch of miles downhill (I know it's not all coasting as there are some ups in the down), then turning immediately around and killing yourself getting back.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Also if you did that, you'd have 60K of draft fest before it breaks up. Going out to Callahan first breaks things up a bit.