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IM Power
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 6:44
Post #1 of 15 (1397 views)
I am all set to go for IMMT in a few weeks which is my first IM. About a month ago I got a PM and have been learning a lot about power and pacing.

I have several 4-hour rides with watts ranging from 210-224 watts. I did a 125k ride yesterday at 215W/35.4kph/114bpm and ran 10-miles at 4:35kms/128bpm. I was really happy how I felt off the bike as I ate and drank as planned. The conditions were cool at the start and the bike had about 750m gain over a 50km section in the middle. The run was flat with a few bumps.

I am not exactly sure what my FTP as I did a 20-minute test about 3 weeks ago in less than ideal circumstances at 278W/152bpm. I have done a 40km training TT @256W/130bpm so it wasn't an all out effort as far as RPE or HR.

I have been using BBS to calibrate my bike performance and think that I have dialed it in within 1% being able to predict watts/time.

It seems to me that 5W equals about 4-minute and so my question is, should I go for it at 220W or save it for the run?
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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atasic
Aug 1, 14 7:06
Post #2 of 15 (1364 views)
No, 220W will be too high for you. 4hr rides are one thing, while 112mi is another. Given your other two data points, without digging more, 190-200W max is where I would settle. You also don't mention AP or NP and they can be quite different for ~6000ft climbing courses. VI 1.03-1.05 is not uncommon and that is 5% difference.
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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MSUtri
Aug 1, 14 7:14
Post #3 of 15 (1340 views)
As a reference, not saying that my ride was perfect or anything (it definitely wasn't), but my FTP when I did IMMT last year was 305W and I rode about 230W NP.

Here's a link to my Garmin Connect file: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/361877982

I felt amazing off the bike, unfortunately the run didn't pan out as well. But, as the previous poster said, 220W is probably too high for you at an FTP of 280W.
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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IanH
Aug 1, 14 7:25
Post #4 of 15 (1320 views)
I would caution against that. Partially because it is your first IM, partially because 180k is much longer than 125k.

I went into IMMT last year planning on averaging 210W for the entire ride. I would maintain similar wattages to what you described in training. I ended up averaging 189W (NP - 199W). I faded on the second loop and just couldn't maintain the wattages i was planning. It is a tough bike course and pacing is everything. I understand you want a fast bike time, but you really need to be honest with yourself about your training and fitness.
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Re: IM Power [atasic] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 7:40
Post #5 of 15 (1303 views)
AP 210W
NP 215W
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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McBoyler
Aug 1, 14 8:28
Post #6 of 15 (1261 views)
Just for a conservative estimation... If we put your FTP at 275 you could certainly ride the ride at 220 Watts average. Assuming you can stay VERY constant with a VI (variability index) less than 1.05. (Think super smooth) How much you have left for the run... Depends how strong of a runner you are.

For normal ranges. You should be around .7 Intensity. With a FTP of 275 would be closer to 190-195. This is going to leave you strong ready to run!

Are you doing one more century this weekend?
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Re: IM Power [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128
Aug 1, 14 8:52
Post #7 of 15 (1242 views)
For your first IM, I'd shoot for a conservative number. BBS will also tell you that 10 W is ONLY 8 minutes.... but if you over bike, you could run 30 minutes slower.

It's also a hillier course, so it's a longer ride than a flatter course. Keep that in mind.

For example I'm currently shooting for a conservative 0.70-0.71 at IMWI, my first IM.... which is around 215-220W NP. Not enough to be gained to risk going faster. I could be leaving a few minutes on the table... but not worth the risk when I'm untested on the IM run. Hard to say how much that long swim will take out of me and how I'll feel on lap 2.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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dmorris
Aug 1, 14 9:27
Post #8 of 15 (1197 views)
What's you run like? How about your swim?

There's really no point in going for it on the bike because the risk/reward is just not worth it. If you want to go for it at some point, get to the second half of the marathon and let 'er rip. Regarding your bike pacing, conservative is the way to go for just about every AGer out there. Your 20' power was 278 watts three weeks ago, and it doesn't look like you have any 5+ hour rides in the bank if you're reporting several 4 hr rides to us. I'd say you should average well under 200 watts for the entirety of the ride. Probably something in the range of 180-190 watts. If by chance that's way too easy, you have a whole marathon to run through the field.
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Re: IM Power [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 9:47
Post #9 of 15 (1172 views)
I was going to do a repeat of what I did this week but at 220W NP and hold back on the run at 4:50-5:00/km versus 4:35/km. The thing is that I am not a very 'fast' runner but rather a 'strong' runner, like a diesel. I seem to be able to hold pace at low HR on the run rather than go fast. I will see how the 220W NP goes and see. I may end up going for 210W for IM depending on how I feel after the 220W test.


Or perhaps I should do a 20' FTP test and try and hold 220/.75/.9=308W? I currently do 4x2.6k hill repeats at 295W w/ 4' RI. Is it acceptable to do this FTP test on an ID trainer?
Last edited by: micaza75: Aug 1, 14 10:05
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Re: IM Power [dmorris] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 9:57
Post #10 of 15 (1156 views)
Swim: I can hold 1:36/100m for 4.15km open water training swim and recently did an oly swim in ~23 with no drafting so I would be trilled with a sub-65 swim.

Run: I ran a 3:15 marathon last fall on very little training as in on less than 50km/week and 4 long runs of 15/17/19/21 miles in the 6 weeks leading up to the event. I held a 4:28/km for the first 21-miles of the race then the wheels came off and lost 5' in the last 5-miles. WIth the training I have done and if all goes well, as well as I feel yesturday's test went, I am hoping for a 3:30 or 5:00/km.

I understand anything can happen, but again, this is a best case scenario and I will adjust according to how the day goes and I feel.
Last edited by: micaza75: Aug 1, 14 10:06
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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dmorris
Aug 1, 14 10:13
Post #11 of 15 (1123 views)
micaza75 wrote:
I understand anything can happen, but again, this is a best case scenario and I will adjust according to how the day goes and I feel.

The only problem with this plan is that it's highly likely by the time you realize you've cooked yourself, it'll be too late to do anything about it.

By all means you can stick to your plan of riding 220 watts, but then I guess I don't understand the point of asking for advice. Just about everyone who's responded has said that's way too much. Is it because you think you need 220 watts to ride a certain time? You're 4 minutes for every 5 watts is not quite correct in your first post. 5 watts is approximately worth 0.5 sec/km at typical race speeds, or 90 seconds over an IM. That means you could ride at 200 watts and lose only 6 minutes over a 220 watt ride.
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Re: IM Power [dmorris] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 10:23
Post #12 of 15 (1106 views)
I am reading/listening to people. Read my post #9. I am going to test 220W but will likely go with 210W despite a good result this week at 215W. Just a test to see what happens.
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T
Aug 1, 14 10:39
Post #13 of 15 (1057 views)
i recently saw this on training peaks and it seemed to me like a logical target based on IF. i havent tried it yet but was saving it for my own future reference. other folks might be able to comment on the usability of this.



and here is the link to the original article:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...-meter-in-an-ironman
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Re: IM Power [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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IanH
Aug 1, 14 11:00
Post #14 of 15 (1028 views)
micaza75 wrote:
Or perhaps I should do a 20' FTP test and try and hold 220/.75/.9=308W? I currently do 4x2.6k hill repeats at 295W w/ 4' RI. Is it acceptable to do this FTP test on an ID trainer?

I think the math works out to 325W, not 308W.

Lots of people note differences in their indoor power vs. outdoor power. That is, lower power indoors vs. outdoors.
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Re: IM Power [IanH] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994
Aug 1, 14 11:09
Post #15 of 15 (1012 views)
Thanks. Should have read 220/.75/.95=308W.
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