Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
IM AC 70.3 - 2017
Quote | Reply
Who's in for this race? It will be my first year. Sold out!

I was just reading the athlete guide and the bike course says 2.5 loops. I'm assuming it'll be pretty well marked, but the map in the guide confuses the crap out of me.

I also read some race reports from last year and hoping we don't have the same current issues they ran into part way through the swim last year!
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [ninagski] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Won't have the swim issues. The new course avoids the section of the bay prone to that.

The bike course will be ok. The map does look confusing, but it will be fine. A lot of it is on the expressway. Should be easy to navigate. The weather right now looks cooperative, but that's a ways out. Last year was a great race, I expect the same this time around.

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
The bike course will be ok.

I beg to differ. Maybe it'll be okay for those riding 18 mph, but it's going to be all kinds of dangerous for those going 24+. Slingshotting is of course an excellent way to die.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What safety difference do you see versus last year's course? There could be a boredom difference, but at the very least road quality should be better than some of the back roads and the large pothole by the Wawa. I'm shooting for a 22-22 average and I'm fine with the course layout.

I'd rather be on the expressway than in a Wawa parking lot. Just my $.02

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
What safety difference do you see versus last year's course? There could be a boredom difference, but at the very least road quality should be better than some of the back roads and the large pothole by the Wawa. I'm shooting for a 22-22 average and I'm fine with the course layout.

I'd rather be on the expressway than in a Wawa parking lot. Just my $.02

The concern is that when the front of the pack rolling 23-25mph laps the back of the pack going 15-18 that the speed differential is going to cause problems. If everyone is trying to "ride legally" and thus as far right as is safe there will be a lot of high-speed slighshotting. It's neither a bad, nor dangerous technique to use when the speed differential isn't that large, but it could get really bad when, like will happen here, the FOP approaches and laps the BOP.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I understand that, however the expressway sections of the course have the whole shoulder (at 6-7 feet wide) plus the lane of traffic. That's essentially two lanes of traffic to handle the crowd.

I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
I understand that, however the expressway sections of the course have the whole shoulder (at 6-7 feet wide) plus the lane of traffic. That's essentially two lanes of traffic to handle the crowd.

I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.

There's also the rumble strips to contend with so my guess is people will be moving back and forth from the shoulder to the road. You can stay on the shoulder for so long before an exit forces you across them. Once people go around one loop they are going to realize crossing over them isn't the most fun and may stay in the road.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.

Have you ever done a multi-loop MDot 70.3 course before?
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Every course I have done is single loop.

As I said, maybe I'm just being optimistic, and as a slower than average swimmer but better than average cyclist, I'll be right in the thick of the shit probably. Maybe I'm just hoping for the best and counting on Delmo having a good course. We'll all have to wait and see I guess.

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My biggest concern for the course is the expressway. I agree that some of the out of town sections last year had some rough roads, but 90% were pretty good and it was mostly closed to traffic. Now you have a substantial amount of the course out on the expressway.

Anyone that has done the AC tri in August knows that even though it's a "closed" course to traffic along the expressway, there are still cars and NJ transit buses flying by occasionally at 60 plus miles an hour in the next two lanes. Of course I'm sure those little orange cones will protect us. Part of the problem with the AC tri is that they have a sprint and Olympic going off simultaneously and is the reason I'll never do it again. That means on the second lap you are passing people in the Sprint and slower Olympic athletes that are riding 3-4 abreast. You essentially have a 1-2 person lane to go by on the side closer to traffic. You end up yelling "on your left" the entire second loop. A few times I had to sit up and wait for an opening, but then there are the more daring athletes that would go outside the cones to get around at all costs. Never underestimate the stupid choices people will make to save 20-30 seconds when their competitive juices are flowing. Now add in the "state" of the average person driving a car out of or into AC at that time of the morning and that race is a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion. When I saw the report about the accident at the Chicago tri recently, my first thought was how long it's going to take for that to happen in AC.

I'm hoping the 70.3 will be more spread out and not have as many issues. Also, watch out for the grooves between the outside lane and the shoulder of the road. There are points where you will have to move into shoulder and they will jolt your front end when crossing over.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
Tatonka wrote:
I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.


Have you ever done an MDot 70.3 course before?

Fixed it for you...

Even in single-loop courses you get packs, drafting, blocking, etc. because it's Ironman and that's just how it works.

The multi-loop aspect just adds a new level of chaos to the stupidity. It's basic arithmetic to know that it's impossible to put 2500 cyclists on a 25ish mile loop and have everyone stay at draft legal spacing (especially with the 6 bike length requirement).
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
g_lev wrote:
kileyay wrote:
Tatonka wrote:
I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.


Have you ever done an MDot 70.3 course before?


Fixed it for you...

Even in single-loop courses you get packs, drafting, blocking, etc. because it's Ironman and that's just how it works.

The multi-loop aspect just adds a new level of chaos to the stupidity. It's basic arithmetic to know that it's impossible to put 2500 cyclists on a 25ish mile loop and have everyone stay at draft legal spacing (especially with the 6 bike length requirement).

Not necessarily true. This year there were self seeded swim starts at Oceanside and Chattanooga -- in these types of races, if you position yourself towards the front and if you can swim, then you'll ride mostly alone all day, assuming you can bike. In a regular age group wave start, it's the luck of the draw -- at Muskoka, I was in the first wave and didn't see a single other athlete on the bike course. Legitimately, not one.

It's not just a new level of chaos, it's 2.5x the chaos, if not more, and there is no way to escape it for any athlete of any ability. This race is going to be an absolute shitshow mad house, and if you think otherwise you haven't done races like this.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
g_lev wrote:
kileyay wrote:
Tatonka wrote:
I guess I am stupid being hopeful that people will ride to the right. That's kinda like hoping there won't be peleton-esque draft packs on the course either. A guy can dream though.


Have you ever done an MDot 70.3 course before?


Fixed it for you...

Even in single-loop courses you get packs, drafting, blocking, etc. because it's Ironman and that's just how it works.

The multi-loop aspect just adds a new level of chaos to the stupidity. It's basic arithmetic to know that it's impossible to put 2500 cyclists on a 25ish mile loop and have everyone stay at draft legal spacing (especially with the 6 bike length requirement).


Not necessarily true. This year there were self seeded swim starts at Oceanside and Chattanooga -- in these types of races, if you position yourself towards the front and if you can swim, then you'll ride mostly alone all day, assuming you can bike. In a regular age group wave start, it's the luck of the draw -- at Muskoka, I was in the first wave and didn't see a single other athlete on the bike course. Legitimately, not one.

It's not just a new level of chaos, it's 2.5x the chaos, if not more, and there is no way to escape it for any athlete of any ability. This race is going to be an absolute shitshow mad house, and if you think otherwise you haven't done races like this.

Fair enough. It seems to work OK at fulls with two loops just due to the length. Worked reasonably well at IMLP this year but it did take about 25 miles for the front peloton to break up.

I was in a later wave at Raleigh 70.3 this year and was constantly in the position of passing much slower people from earlier waves. While the slingshot effect was nice, that wasn't exactly a safe thing to be doing (but what else could I do riding 23mph vs the people ahead of be barely holding on to 18?).

One thing I'll tell you that didn't work at all was at 70.3 Maine last weekend where they didn't have us self-seed and instead lined us up in whatever order we arrived. I got stuck at the back choosing to get in the 60F water for a few minutes to acclimate. Trying to race fast from the back of 2000 people was not much fun.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
It's not just a new level of chaos, it's 2.5x the chaos, if not more, and there is no way to escape it for any athlete of any ability. This race is going to be an absolute shitshow mad house, and if you think otherwise you haven't done races like this.

^^^This

I am in. Did it last year also. Had I known it was going to be a 2.5x loop bike I would never have signed up. Lots of people love this race director. He really grates on me for some reason. Always posting videos of himself that are basically intended to let you know how wonderful he and his races are. Maybe he had no idea he wasn't going to get permits for the same bike course as last year until way after registration opened, but I just have a feeling that that is not the case, and that he waited until the race was close to full and then made the announcement about the bike being 2.5x loops. Even now he tries to spin it like its some kind of great improvement over last year by saying it's going to be closed to traffic and we "get to ride toll free on the Atlantic City Expressway". There's been no acknowledgement of how dangerous it is going to be with that many bikers trying to share the course.

I'm betting that his legion of fanboys blast me for this post.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RallySavage wrote:
kileyay wrote:

It's not just a new level of chaos, it's 2.5x the chaos, if not more, and there is no way to escape it for any athlete of any ability. This race is going to be an absolute shitshow mad house, and if you think otherwise you haven't done races like this.


^^^This

I am in. Did it last year also. Had I known it was going to be a 2.5x loop bike I would never have signed up. Lots of people love this race director. He really grates on me for some reason. Always posting videos of himself that are basically intended to let you know how wonderful he and his races are. Maybe he had no idea he wasn't going to get permits for the same bike course as last year until way after registration opened, but I just have a feeling that that is not the case, and that he waited until the race was close to full and then made the announcement about the bike being 2.5x loops. Even now he tries to spin it like its some kind of great improvement over last year by saying it's going to be closed to traffic and we "get to ride toll free on the Atlantic City Expressway". There's been no acknowledgement of how dangerous it is going to be with that many bikers trying to share the course.

I'm betting that his legion of fanboys blast me for this post.

Well, this is all somewhat disappointing. I had heard such great things about Delmo events that I figured this would be just as great, if not better. Though, only one way to find out...
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RallySavage wrote:
kileyay wrote:

It's not just a new level of chaos, it's 2.5x the chaos, if not more, and there is no way to escape it for any athlete of any ability. This race is going to be an absolute shitshow mad house, and if you think otherwise you haven't done races like this.


^^^This

I am in. Did it last year also. Had I known it was going to be a 2.5x loop bike I would never have signed up. Lots of people love this race director. He really grates on me for some reason. Always posting videos of himself that are basically intended to let you know how wonderful he and his races are. Maybe he had no idea he wasn't going to get permits for the same bike course as last year until way after registration opened, but I just have a feeling that that is not the case, and that he waited until the race was close to full and then made the announcement about the bike being 2.5x loops. Even now he tries to spin it like its some kind of great improvement over last year by saying it's going to be closed to traffic and we "get to ride toll free on the Atlantic City Expressway". There's been no acknowledgement of how dangerous it is going to be with that many bikers trying to share the course.

I'm betting that his legion of fanboys blast me for this post.

I was disappointed in the change after signing up. I enjoyed last year's race (despite the worst bonk I've ever experienced), and while I still would have signed up, I wish I did know of the change prior to registering.

I've always enjoyed the RDs events. Far from a fanboy, don't really watch the videos, but I've had good experiences at any of his events I've done. If the bike course is a cluster, I'll be the first to call it that and not do the event in the future if it is a bad experience. I am willing though to give something new a chance and see how it works out. Experiences will vary I bet, and I wish I spent some more time swimming (and hired a coach) so I'd be a bit more near the front.

Every long (or short for that matter) course tri has something that is a cluster. For the most part, if people followed the rules, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it ends up being.

-Formerly TriTJ
I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't forget about the "first timers" that want to be "AN IRONMAN" and are doing the race on little-to-no training / have no idea how to handle a bike. Two examples from the past couple years.
  1. Eagleman: One person that had no business being on a bike decided it would be a good idea to stop at an aid station 3' in to the road relative to the volunteers - guy behind her getting ready for a sling-shot came out of aero, hit the brakes but still SLAMMED in to her.
  2. St. George: A girl on a road bike attempted to grab a drink while traveling past an aid station. She lost control of her bike, plowed directly into a volunteer and flew over a fold-up table (bike and all).

Now we will have 2.5x the interaction opportunities with these NARPS and on winding highway ramps to boot -- we're going to be in for some fun.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
What safety difference do you see versus last year's course? There could be a boredom difference, but at the very least road quality should be better than some of the back roads and the large pothole by the Wawa. I'm shooting for a 22-22 average and I'm fine with the course layout.

I'd rather be on the expressway than in a Wawa parking lot. Just my $.02

Pothole, or that fcvking lip at the entrance into the lot? I still remember that from CAC in 2015.. scary.

And yeah, once you're one side of the expressway rumble strips it's tough to cross back over. Was an issue in the AC Tri the year I did it ('14?) but with only 150 people for the CAC full, passing and getting passed wasn't really an issue since those 150 were so spread out after the course split from the half distance.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Course will be easy to follow, but yeah, it's going to get nutty. Was a bummer to see the course changed to the 2.5loop after registration.

I didn't think the rumble strips were bad when I did the olympic (only crossed twice), but coming back in on the bike and running into the back of the outgoing crowd on the overlapping part of the loop was rough.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [dand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've not done the math, but I doubt that you can legally fit all the registered athletes on that course at the same time. Ironically, they posted on Facebook yesterday that they are looking for an additional two motto drivers to carry referees during the bike. Hope they have as many ambulances standing by.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RallySavage wrote:
I've not done the math, but I doubt that you can legally fit all the registered athletes on that course at the same time.

56 miles x 1,760 yards/mile = 98,560 yards
98,560 yards / 2.5 laps = 39,424 yards per lap
39,424 yards / 2,500 people = 15.8 yards per person

"Athletes must keep six bike lengths of clear space between bikes except when passing. Failure to do so will result in a drafting violation"

Assuming everyone is uniformly distributed along the length of the course it should all be ok.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [vitalstatistix] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Interesting discussion about the bike course. Is there a trend in IM to move toward 2 loop courses to help with permitting? Any critiques of the AC swim or run?
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [somers515] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Also does anyone have a video showing the bike course route? Or even a map that better shows how the loops work then the official map?
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [ninagski] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lots of howling at the moon in this thread.

What I've learned in my short tri career is:
  1. Many people don't properly seed themselves in the swim
  2. Many people don't know how to ride the bike and/or are oblivious to others around them

Your choice is to control what you can control.

I hear you that running up on people pedaling 15 MPH when you are pushing 25 sucks and is dangerous. You just need to be prepared that it is going to happen and you might need to come out of aero or pull that thing on your bars called a break. It's not optimal, but as the experienced rider and the one who is visually aware that you are trying to pass, it's on you to do it safely.

Should they be riding right? Yes.

Should they listen when you yell "left"? Yes.

Should you be able to stay aero and push your 400 watts? Yes.

Problem is you can't.

Like I said, you are the experienced rider and you should control the situation.

I've done all the Delmo races multiple times except 70.3. They are organized and well run. Compared to other RD's, I do believe he cares as much about me and my race experience as he cares about my money. My knock on him, which I have conveyed, is that he never addresses the novice athletes directly. His pre-race meetings are full of helpful information but I've never heard him say to the newbies "don't ride 5 across while having a conversation". Nonetheless, every race I do has athletes (usually in the same tri-club gear) riding 5 across having a conversation. I contend most of these athletes just don't know any better and it would only take someone telling them this to change their behavior.

When I was a newbie to tri, I didn't know roadies weren't comfortable riding close to me while I was in aero. I was training for an IM and did some rides with a local group. I thought I should spend as much time in aero as possible. I felt safe and under control. No big deal. I now understand these roadies were secretly wishing harm to me. It would have just taken one person to say something. Nobody ever did.

Golf is the same way. It took a 2-handicap to tell me to be aware of my shadow on the green for me to not have my shadow cast over someone else's line or ball.

Somebody just needs to educate these newbies in a way that doesn't require them to read pages and pages of USAT rule 7.2-5.66-a(4). Most of them are scared as hell and just trying to get the medal. They are not out to ruin your day. Worse, in a 70.3, I'd say that person riding 15mph on the bike is probably wondering how the hell they are going to run 13 miles. They have little regard for your 400 watts.
Quote Reply
Re: IM AC 70.3 - 2017 [somers515] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I made this in mapmyride. It should be correct.

http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/view/1650743948

I'm a little nervous about the loops, but I'm hoping the portion that takes you off the expressway and into the more rural area helps to spread people out a little bit.

Doing the AC Tri Oly , it was a shitty 2nd loop as you were coming back up the Expressway for your second lap and saw the swarm of sprint athletes coming down the on ramp.....but that was really never leaving the expressway.
Quote Reply

Prev Next