How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant

Jul 16, 17 6:10

Post #1 of 22 (5131 views)

Everyone has been so helpful in my post about whether or not I could use a 32t cassette with my derailleur (Tl;DR, I can't) that I thought I would ask for some advice as to whether to not I actually need it.

Some background

A Race - Mont Tremblant
Weight - 205
Current cassette - 11/28
Compact crankset - 50/34
FTP - 285w
IMMT Target - 200w

I live in MI and am struggling to replicate the long climb up Chemin Duplessis. I was able to find a hill the other day that was 1.07 miles @ an average grade of 3.7%. If I take out the top where it levels off slightly it's .75 miles @ 4.5%. I've read various race reports and Duplessis looks to be in the 4-6% range. My average power was 230 and my normalized power for the climb yesterday was 248. I am not a good climber, mainly b/c I'm just too damn fat and I want to make sure I can run after the ride.

Is 248 a reasonable NP with an FTP of 285 on a long(ish) climb?
Should I look at buying a new derailleur so I can rock an 11/32 cassette?
Can anyone describe the hills or provide a ride file for Mont Tremblant? I've found so many conflicting sources that I'm not really sure what to believe.

I believe I can make the Training Peaks file public if anyone wanted to take a look... the hill is around mile 92 (http://tpks.ws/wu4rZ).

I rode 100 miles yesterday with an average power of 194 and NP of 208 with about 4300ft of climbing. It sounds like our climbs are shorter and steeper than MT (lots of 8-10%, but not very long). I was able to run a 10k slightly faster than race pace after this ride so I was fairly happy with my pacing. I rode with a skinny friend so the VI is a bit high as I had to coast going downhill or I would run into him.

Any thoughts? Did I forget to include anything?

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 6:19

Post #2 of 22 (5120 views)

Toefuzz wrote:

Everyone has been so helpful in my post about whether or not I could use a 32t cassette with my derailleur (Tl;DR, I can't) that I thought I would ask for some advice as to whether to not I actually need it.

Some background

A Race - Mont Tremblant
Weight - 205
Current cassette - 11/28
Compact crankset - 50/34
FTP - 285w
IMMT Target - 200w

I live in MI and am struggling to replicate the long climb up Chemin Duplessis. I was able to find a hill the other day that was 1.07 miles @ an average grade of 3.7%. If I take out the top where it levels off slightly it's .75 miles @ 4.5%. I've read various race reports and Duplessis looks to be in the 4-6% range. My average power was 230 and my normalized power for the climb yesterday was 248. I am not a good climber, mainly b/c I'm just too damn fat and I want to make sure I can run after the ride.

Is 248 a reasonable NP with an FTP of 285 on a long(ish) climb?
Should I look at buying a new derailleur so I can rock an 11/32 cassette?
Can anyone describe the hills or provide a ride file for Mont Tremblant? I've found so many conflicting sources that I'm not really sure what to believe.

I believe I can make the Training Peaks file public if anyone wanted to take a look... the hill is around mile 92 (http://tpks.ws/wu4rZ).

I rode 100 miles yesterday with an average power of 194 and NP of 208 with about 4300ft of climbing. It sounds like our climbs are shorter and steeper than MT (lots of 8-10%, but not very long). I was able to run a 10k slightly faster than race pace after this ride so I was fairly happy with my pacing. I rode with a skinny friend so the VI is a bit high as I had to coast going downhill or I would run into him.

Any thoughts? Did I forget to include anything?

I would recommend at your weigh and FTP you need a 34x32.

If Chris Froome used a 38x32 on Mont du Chat, then you need a 34x32 on Duplesis if you want to run well. One of my friends has gone 9:30 at IM Tremblant and used that 34x32 gearing to save his legs. My FTP hovers in the 4-4.2W per kilo range and for every full IM at Tremblant 34x28 was well used. For the 70.3 riding at higher intensity 34x25 was plenty, but not for the IM without spiking the wattage. If i recall the max grade on Duplesis is 13% but super short (it is on the uphill side of the no pass descent on the other side). Still you don't want to hammer that section going up

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 6:31

Post #3 of 22 (5108 views)

http://www.gear-calculator.com/

Have at it.
I also suggest a 34 x 32.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 6:36

Post #4 of 22 (5105 views)

Pretty well every age grouper I coached for Tremblant and 75% had higher watts per kilo over the OP went minimum 34x28. But at his watts per kilo you need 34x32. In all seriousness, with Chris Froome's watts per kilo and using 38x32 on Mont du Chat and basically closing and then attacking the best riders in the world on a climb of the same steepness (albeit longer), I think you all have the answer. What we think we can get away with, and what we really need to run a decent marathon are often 2 different things. Smaller gearing is always better for almost all age groupers on a spiky course.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 7:04

Post #5 of 22 (5081 views)

I'm 175-180 pounds, 270 ftp, and I've done MT many times with 34-28. THAT said, if I had an easier gear on the back, I probably would have used it on the steepest parts of the climb. So I too would say go with a 32. Better to have it and not use it than....

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 7:34

Post #6 of 22 (5052 views)

A new Ultegra rear derailleur and chain is under $100.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 8:05

Post #7 of 22 (5032 views)

Merlin Cycles is running a special through the end of the day. You can get the RD-6800 GS and HG-701 chain for $80.06 with free shipping.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 8:54

Post #8 of 22 (5008 views)

11-32 for sure. I've done it on a 50/34 11-28 and averaged 200w and wished for a 11-32 on the second lap.
My FTP was 275 and weighed 155 at the time.

Last edited by: sp1ke: Jul 16, 17 8:54

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 9:38

Post #9 of 22 (4873 views)

I'm in the same boat and looking to move from 11-28t to 11-32t. I've posted the specs of my current set up below, could someone who's bike savvy let me know if I'd need new parts, chain, etc to make this happen and what models? My bike is the 2015 Kestrel Talon Tri 105.

CRANKSETOval Concepts 520 Alloy Compact 50/34TBOTTOM BRACKETOval Concepts Integrated, External BearingsFRONT DERAILLEURShimano 105, Braze-onREAR DERAILLEURShimano 105, 11-spSHIFTERSFSA Metron bar end, 11 spCASSETTESunRace, 11-28TCHAINKMC X11, 11-sp

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [TRobTri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 9:45

Post #10 of 22 (4863 views)

You need:

- Medium cage RD (for 105 it would be the 5800 GS) http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1171350_-1___
- New chain
- 11-32 cassette (your pick Shimano or SRAM). SRAM is 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32 while Shimano is 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Some people prefer to have a 15 cog others a 16. Depending what speeds you ride on that course you pick the one you think will suit you best.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 9:53

Post #11 of 22 (4851 views)

I was almost the same weight and slightly lower FTP than you last year when I did IMMT, I used a 50/34 and 11-32. Didn't regret it at all.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 9:59

Post #12 of 22 (4844 views)

I'm not saying anyone is incorrect (at all) in any of their assertions. I just don't see any negatives in running the 11-32 (v. the 11-28). I'm also running a 50/34.

I'm in a similar situation (194#'s @ 52 yrs) and I'm running the 11-32 at LOU. I also ran it at Choo 70.3 and ride with it every day, now. If there's a gear or three I'm missing out on not having (somewhere in the middle), I just don't miss it....and i still have the same 11-tooth at the end. I haven't tested in a while, but it's a pretty safe bet my FTP is below the OP's.

I just don't see anything negative in the decision to go with the bigger ring.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 10:03

Post #13 of 22 (4838 views)

Thanks for the feedback everyone... I don't trust myself to install it, index everything correctly, etc (mechanical skills are one of my offseason goals). Unfortunately none of my local shops have any in stock and I am heading to Northern Michigan Wednesday afternoon. I called the shop I frequent up there and they were out as well. I apologized and explained that I hate to be the a$$hole who brings in parts he bought online, but they were cool with me having one delivered to our place up north and installing it later this week so I have it to practice with on the hills of Northern Michigan.

Again, thanks for all your help!

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 21:01

Post #14 of 22 (4757 views)

I'm 175# and FTP of 250 so probably similar watts/kilo. I did mont tremblant with and 34/28, but there where a few spots that I really had to spike my power to keep moving. A 32 tooth would have been nice to have.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 9:49

Post #15 of 22 (4624 views)

sp1ke wrote:

You need:

- Medium cage RD (for 105 it would be the 5800 GS) http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1171350_-1___
- New chain
- 11-32 cassette (your pick Shimano or SRAM). SRAM is 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32 while Shimano is 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Some people prefer to have a 15 cog others a 16. Depending what speeds you ride on that course you pick the one you think will suit you best.

Thank you for your help and insight! Because I currently have a Shimano 105 RD, would I still need to upgrade to the 5800 GS (Could this be the one I currently have?) or could I use my current? I'm running the 11/28t currently with the 50/34 compact crank. Sorry for the rookie questions!

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 10:04

Post #16 of 22 (4612 views)

Just curious what would you recommend if you do not have a compact crankset, instead say 53/39?

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [MacCTD] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 10:27

Post #17 of 22 (4601 views)

you are fine with an 11-28, I had the same exact setup as you and had no problems last year, there were 1-2 sections where I actually had to get off the saddle but those were short distances.

I am 200 lbs with ftp of 260,

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [TRobTri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 10:56

Post #18 of 22 (4577 views)

Yes, the regular 105 RD that comes stock on most bikes is the short cage version. The GS has a longer cage (you can compare in pics) that allows you to use a larger cassette. There are reports out there that you could use a regular short cage with a 32 cassette if you mess around with the B screw - just google "short cage derailleur 32t cassette".

TRobTri wrote:

sp1ke wrote:

You need:

- Medium cage RD (for 105 it would be the 5800 GS) http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1171350_-1___
- New chain
- 11-32 cassette (your pick Shimano or SRAM). SRAM is 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32 while Shimano is 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Some people prefer to have a 15 cog others a 16. Depending what speeds you ride on that course you pick the one you think will suit you best.

Thank you for your help and insight! Because I currently have a Shimano 105 RD, would I still need to upgrade to the 5800 GS (Could this be the one I currently have?) or could I use my current? I'm running the 11/28t currently with the 50/34 compact crank. Sorry for the rookie questions!

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [TRobTri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 11:09

Post #19 of 22 (4568 views)

TRobTri wrote:

sp1ke wrote:

You need:

- Medium cage RD (for 105 it would be the 5800 GS) http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10052_10551_1171350_-1___
- New chain
- 11-32 cassette (your pick Shimano or SRAM). SRAM is 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32 while Shimano is 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Some people prefer to have a 15 cog others a 16. Depending what speeds you ride on that course you pick the one you think will suit you best.

Thank you for your help and insight! Because I currently have a Shimano 105 RD, would I still need to upgrade to the 5800 GS (Could this be the one I currently have?) or could I use my current? I'm running the 11/28t currently with the 50/34 compact crank. Sorry for the rookie questions!

Well, to add to your confusion, I have a 2015 (16?) Cervelo P2 that has 105 (5800) components. It also has the 50/34 up front. My bike came with a long cage RD....but, I've seen other 105 P2's with short cage RDs.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 17 11:49

Post #20 of 22 (4551 views)

sp1ke wrote:

Yes, the regular 105 RD that comes stock on most bikes is the short cage version. The GS has a longer cage (you can compare in pics) that allows you to use a larger cassette. There are reports out there that you could use a regular short cage with a 32 cassette if you mess around with the B screw - just google "short cage derailleur 32t cassette".

I can confirm that 105 (or Ultegra) short cage derailleurs work just fine with a 32t cog, assuming the chain is sized properly. I didn't even need to mess with the B screw, although it felt slightly better when I turned it a couple turns in.

When going to such a wide range though, be sure to avoid extreme cross-chaining in either direction. So try not to ride the 50x32, or the 34x11, and probably avoid the 50x28 and 34x12 if possible.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 21 8:32

Post #21 of 22 (2212 views)

Great information, sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but thought I'd add some information for anyone that is in a similar situation:

I've done the Mont Tremblant 90km loop several times in a road bike and i got used to it. then tried the same loop with TT (after a professional bike fit), it was a completely different story, the hills were VERY challenging (for my power output), causing near stalls, so i narrowed it down to several factors, one of which is gearing... I was running a 52-36 in the front and 12-25 cassette in the rear installed on the TT... compared with 50-34 and a 12-30T cassette that i'm used to on the road bike.

If you have an Ultegra 6800 or 8000 and want to run an 11-32 cassette, make sure you have a medium cage (not SS, make sure you have a GS cage)

According to Shimano,
The RD-6800-GS 11 speed rear derailleur allows for a maximum of 32T (as the largest cog in the rear cassette)
The RD-8000-GS 11 speed rear derailleur allows for a maximum of 34T

in my case, i changed the derailleur, chain, and cassette, Also verified compatibility of the shifters and the rest of the drivetrain, which checked out ok. I hope that this helps someone... happy training.

Re: How to determine which cassette to use @ Mont Tremblant [Sannouni] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 21 9:16

Post #22 of 22 (2195 views)

I have put several people on the Shimano CS-HG800 11-Speed Cassette 11-34T for that race.

Also, an 11-36 works very well with the R8000 GS Rear derailleur, I've used a SRAM PG-1130.

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