I did the 10k last year and it was cold...I went back out to cheer on my friends who were doing the half and then I really froze. I agree with whomever else suggested to stay at the host hotel. It was great--and I did most of my warmup in the hotel hallways, staying warm.

-Danielle

An aerobic engine is an aerobic engine no matter how it was developed. See Mr Armstrong as evidence...

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Actualy Mr. Armstrong is about to provide us very good evidence to the contrary. From what I've heard, he is really strugling with the run training.

Think of it this way. Your body is a car with an engine, a fuel pump, and a supercharger (muscles, heart, lungs). You can spend a lifetime building a top of the line fuel pump and supercharger on your corvette. However, move them onto a Ford Focus and....well.......you are going to have the fastest for Focus in town, but you won't compete against a Mustang. You still need to build the engine.

In other words, yes, the strong heart and lungs will help, but they are less than half the equation. You NEED to build mitocondria and capilaries to the specific muscles that are used.

Again, even if it doesn't "make sense" note that not one single elite runner does any significant amount of cross training.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

You said "Funny how those who grew up using their lungs 2+ hrs a day as swimmers since age 6 often excel as triathletes later in life despite this lack of crossover benefit?"

If there is such a great crossover benefit, then why can't such athletes hop on a bike and excel? Is there something in their swim training that is lacking for cycling success? Does that mean that cycling-specific training is necessary for excellence in cycling?

Put it this way: the outstanding cardiovascular system that Phelps and Thorpe have won't do much good if the muscles to which their heart/lungs deliver oxygen can't use it.

If you are going to argue belief systems, take it to the more appropriate Lavender Room. "Kind and gentle" doesn't apply therein, however.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

 I would put forward this revolutionary concept:

If you have nothing good to say...shut your pie hole.

~Matt

I was offended by your post.

I disagree.

I think it offers an opportunity for others to critique and comment on it, and everyone, including the OP'ers themselves, can learn from that. Perhaps even you. (yes, I said it; it is at least theoretically possible that you do not actually know everything ;-)

Besides, if nobody talked about what they were doing, ST would have about 3 posts a day, and you and Slowman both might have to get a real job ;-)

If nobody ever questioned or debated commonly accepted "truths" and "facts" of training, we might all be going by "X random # - age +/- shoe size" training zones and whatnot.

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float , hammer , and jog

Phew!, I just farted I thought you were going to say you were offende by my smell...

~Matt

not that Paulo needs me to stick up for him but did anyone read the article from the link he posted? I would argue (sorry...state) that was something good to say.

mark

 

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"Triathlon is a winter sport that is merely played out in the summer."

I'm guessing that at least one poster on this thread didn't (but I did: I read everything that Paulo posts, because I, oh, never mind).

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"Go yell at an M&M"

"nor am i going to get more than 2hrs 45 of an aerobic workout by running along"

Implicit in your repsonse is the erroneous assumption that in order to "suceed" at the marathon distance you need to engage in an activity--be it running, or, in your example biking--that stresses you aerobic system for the equivalent time it will take you to run the marathon. This is a false notion and one that newbie runners often conjur up--i.e. "do I really need to run 26.2 miles in training in order to make it to the finish on race day?" To make my point clearer, imagine a 100 mile ultra-runner that said "well, I can't run over 80 miles in training, but, I can bike for 20+ hours straight."

Your best bet is to re-read BarryP's post and get yourself a copy of The Lore of Running.

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Then he had something good to say,No? However as has been pointed out a good portion of his post are "No you're wrong", end of story. What's the point? Maybe he should just ask Dan to make that a sticky for him and save him 20 posts a day. That way if he doesn't respond to a post we'll all just assume the default "You're wrong" post.

By all means if someone is wrong, say so. But please offer a solution to correct the problem. "Hey you're wrong" does nothing, accept to increase post count. "Hey you're wrong, because and do this to do it properly", actually helps people out.

I would think the overwhelmingly positive response to posts from people like Doug Stern, BarryP and many others that post about what they know in a manner that the rest of us "laymen" can understand and disucuss is proof positive it can be done.

~Matt

Hi Barry, keep in mind that Mr. Armstrong was running 16 min for 5K off the bike as a 16 year old triathlete. But to your point, he might be struggling today cause his engine's capacity exceeds his running legs. His engine likely allows him to go quite quickly, but his legs are not ready for the pounding. I know a lot of XC skiers with huge engines, coming off winter in peak fitness get easily injured, because it is easy to run quickly because running does not provide their aerobic system with the same load as XC skiing, but in the end, they are limited by the legs and pounding. It takes lots of patient miles to bring the legs up to the cardio for many elite athletes coming from other sports like cycling, XC skiing, swimming, or rowing.

Dev

You're wrong.

post_count++;

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"Go yell at an M&M"

You mean like the more is MORE posts that I posted?

I can go back and do a search on all your replies to my posts. I would find that you are always very aggressive to me and often offensive (for example in this thread). Most of the times I choose to ignore you, but I would say that YOU never have anything positive to offer.

totally agree with you - specificity will certainly gain greater success IF it can be absorbed.

BUT, I am suggesting there is a cut-off for an individual (ie me) where "more" in a single specific sport can/will lead to injury or overtraining and at this point benefit can be gained by supplementing cross training rather than sitting on the couch. (which you agreed with yourself)

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

t2k,

Even the link that Paulo posted (which was quite informative, even if the study was 11 years old) mentions that for non-elites, there may be a benefit to cross training.

Are you an elite? If so, you know what you need to do (or not to do).

If not, you know yourself better than anyone else. Make your own call.

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float , hammer , and jog

"to me "

Yeh I'm usually pretty agressive *to you* and not so much with alot of others. Now are you going to tell me you don't deserve it?

"but I would say that YOU never have anything positive to offer."

And I say because YOU rarely leave anything to be postive about. How do you propose one responds positively to

"Your post is riddled with common misconceptions about the transfer between cycling training and run training. Some of the things you referred to are not accurate.

I would like to thank you for your post and for the alternative, albeit incorrect, view that it presents. ."

Maybe I should have just responded with "Thank you for your post"?

~Matt

The study says benefit in "overall fitness", not in specific performance.

T2K, then there are others who can actually do more volume in running when they run and add in some very light biking, vs just running and sitting on the couch. The "recovery rides" do just that, getting the blood flowing and the muscles moving, and allowing the person to resume running volume and intensity often much sooner than just sitting on the couch. You'll even see football players, soccer players, hockey players, and speedskaters sitting on the bike, moving the legs in circles with zero pounding to get them back to performing at full capacity much more quickly than doing that actual specific core sport that they play...go figure!

I'm not a runner, I'm a triathlete and am merely pointing out a way I find my own relative success at marathon running based on a 3 sport training program.

should I just keep quiet because i find boredom and injury comes with single sport focus?

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

No damn it, you're wrong, because I think so. But you could be right if you'd just agree with me.

~Matt

I have a question, why did you get involved in the discussion if not to stalk my posts? I have yet to see a contribution from you on the subject of the thread.

[reply]But you could be right if you'd just agree with me.

~Matt[/reply]

LOL....Love it!!!!

wouldn't my "specific performance" benefit from improved "overall fitness"?

Or would it be better with REDUCED "overall fitness"????

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)