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Hoka: Let's Get Real
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I know Dan has been touting the Hokas for some time around here and I have paid a little attention to it but not much. Then I saw the brief snippet from his latest article on the front page, "Yes, the name Hoka One One means something in Maori. But that's not the question. What does this shoe mean? For the future of running? It means a fundamental change in the way you consider shoes."

I thought "Oh really?" and decided to read the article which then goes on to say, "I want to tell you what I think the idea is, because it’s the most revolutionary thing to hit running since the waffle. No. it’s more revolutionary than that."

As well as, "It is the fastest 10oz shoe on the market, by a longshot." Quantified how? This is ST after all, "In God we trust, all others bring data."

I run a lot, I am decent at it. I know a lot of other runners, many who are much faster than me, many who have raced at the upper levels of the sport, and my best friend owns a running shop (that was named one of the 50 best running shops in the country by Competitor Magazine). I don't know a single person who takes this shoe seriously, and it's not because of they have their heads in the sand and are missing the "next big thing".

All the credit in the world to Dan as I know he has been at the forefront of the industry with a number of products, and he says, "This is not a shoe review. I’ve already reviewed this shoe. The point here is to note, for posterity, this game changing moment. It’s my chance to someday say, “You read about it here first,” and then to produce the evidence in the form of this article."

We'll see...



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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they look like stilts
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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Just curious...have you run in them yet?
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be happy to sell you my pair.
I have tried to love it for 5 runs or so. I guess am just not compatible with those...
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of people love their Hokas. It wasn't the shoe for me.

I think they can be a game changer for SOME PEOPLE. Not for everyone. Just like no shoe is a game changer for everyone.
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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Same with me. They are ok as a training shoe but I would not race in them as they do not feel very "responsive".
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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What do you think is wrong w/Hoka's? ... doesn't come through in your O/P
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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SurfingLamb wrote:
A lot of people love their Hokas. It wasn't the shoe for me.

I think they can be a game changer for SOME PEOPLE. Not for everyone. Just like no shoe is a game changer for everyone.

A lot of people love their <insert any brand name here>. It wasn't the shoe for me...
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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I have not tried the shoes, but am thinking about a pair come Spring time. I have a friend who is an ultra runner and I suggest you check out his blog about his top 5 shoes of 2012. It just gives an insight into a guy who has used a few different shoes and what they did for him.

http://bikernate.blogspot.com/...g-shoes-of-2012.html

Contemplating a multi-sport comeback
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the term in the industry is "advertorial".

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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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I would say try them before you bash them...

I posted this comment on the article:

I like them. I've been using them over a year. They are light and stable but to me they don't feel fast. I can run fast in them, but because it is not my everyday shoe I don't think I've really adapted to run fast well in them. They have a rocker sole and don't flex like a normal shoe. Long runs and recovery runs are great, tempo runs have a bit of a running in sand feeling. That being said one of the faster guys in town just went sub 26 for a 5 miler on an XC course in the Bondi B. Just my.02.


To expand on that. They were slow to catch on here in Asheville, NC but now the shop can't keep them in stock. Part of that might be we have a lot of single track trails and a lot of elevation changes and they are incredible for running steep downhills. Most of the people who have converted use them for recovery runs and long runs because you don't get beat up. Many people have been able to credit (wrong or not) the shoe for helping them come back from an injury. Just like all shoes, they are not for everyone, but you never know until you try a pair.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I was talking to myself this morning in the car about this very thing. Out loud.

Dan's new article had me puzzled as well...I've got about 100 miles on my Hokas, and I like them, but for the life of me I can't see how they can be considered a "fast" shoe. They feel dead, no response. Cushy yes...but fast and responsive? Meh. My Newtons feel responsive, much easier to hold a higher turnover...not so much the Hokas. My Brooks ST-5s are light and responsive...not so much the Hokas. Maybe it's because I'm a hefty 220 lbs and I'm compressing all that cushion more than a skinny person...I dunno. If I really got detailed with analyzing it, when I first put them on they do feel light and bouncy. But about 2 miles into the run I'm starting to feel like I'm fighting AGAINST the cushiony feel...like my legs are having to work against the cushion in order to move fast. They truly do remove the feeling of impact with the road unlike any other shoe, that much I know. The other stuff, I'm not feeling it yet.

I'm going to bust them out for one of my shorter/faster runs and see if maybe I'm missing something.


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Last edited by: ArtyEff: Feb 7, 13 10:29
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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Mad Jee wrote:
I run a lot, I am decent at it. I know a lot of other runners, many who are much faster than me, many who have raced at the upper levels of the sport, and my best friend owns a running shop (that was named one of the 50 best running shops in the country by Competitor Magazine). I don't know a single person who takes this shoe seriously, and it's not because of they have their heads in the sand and are missing the "next big thing".

Obviously you don't hang out with any ultrarunners.
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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They are light and stable but to me they don't feel fast.

That was probably my biggest issue with the article, Dan's assessment that "It is the fastest 10oz shoe on the market, by a longshot."

Cushioned? Sure. Fast? They feel like running in sand.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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wait until you turn 58 then try them.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [mtlroadie] [ In reply to ]
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"I believe the term in the industry is "advertorial"."

not very many things set me off. but, some things do. you have one short sliver of a window to grab those words out of the air and stick them back into your keyboard, in which case i'll pretend they never made their ill-advised way out and onto this forum.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [AmaDablam] [ In reply to ]
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Obviously you don't hang out with any ultrarunners.

Actually I know a few ultrarunners, the crazy types who hide sandwiches in the woods for when they are out on their next crazy long run. They seem to wear the Kinvara Trail or the Brooks Cascadia.

That said, even if this shoe is popular with the ultrarunning crowd, we are talking about a pretty small segment of the market here for this to be as much of a game changer as Dan is predicting.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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I've long thought the shoes are a joke. They're stupidly high off the ground and big marshmallows. It seems like turning an ankle would be incredibly easy.

That being said, I've talked to numerous local runners who are in love with the things. Most are older, grizzled runners that have beat themselves up pretty badly in the past. The extra cushioning and padding really seems to help them run more and run healthier. The whole purpose of shoes is to let us do what we enjoy. If they're doing that job, it's hard to fault them. Well, except for the price and the fact that they look like moon boots. :)

speedySTATES
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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wait until you turn 58 then try them.

That's fine, and I'd almost be willing to concede that. But similar to the ultrarunner crowd, the 58 and over crowd is pretty small for this to be the game changer Dan is predicting.

There is a small segment of the running population for every oddball shoe, whether they are Vibrams, Newtons or Hokas. But none of those are going to become the next Waffle, or bigger.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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Not to sound elitist, but when did 10 oz become a "light shoe"?
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [LDF] [ In reply to ]
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Just curious...have you run in them yet?

Yup.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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fartleker wrote:
I've long thought the shoes are a joke. They're stupidly high off the ground and big marshmallows. It seems like turning an ankle would be incredibly easy.

That being said, I've talked to numerous local runners who are in love with the things. Most are older, grizzled runners that have beat themselves up pretty badly in the past. The extra cushioning and padding really seems to help them run more and run healthier. The whole purpose of shoes is to let us do what we enjoy. If they're doing that job, it's hard to fault them. Well, except for the price and the fact that they look like moon boots. :)

You should be able to get a pair to try owning your store. Would be interested to hear what you think after a few runs. The base on these things are super wide and they look a lot taller than they actually are so it is actually really tough to get these things in a position to roll your ankle. I have done it though with a bad foot placement on a root. I've also done the same thing with some INNOV8 f195's too.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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"I run a lot, I am decent at it."

i'm stipulating that you're a much faster runner than i am. i say this because my background in running, while it gives me a rare perspective because of its uninterrupted longevity, is still modest. i was a high school runner, started in 1970, ran 4:19 for the imperial mile as a 16 year old, and then a cascade of injuries that has made good running shoes, orthotics, etc., a pet interest of mine. i was never blazing fast after that. i became a triathlete at age 23, competed in the first hawaiian ironman in kona, and during that span got as fast as a lot of road 10ks in 32-and-change, and that's that. i never broke 32 minutes.

however, i have remained a runner and we all slow down with age, but, over the past couple of years have managed to remain a consistent 18-low, 38-low runner while in my mid-50s. you can see just how slow i am on athlinks. however, because people crumble as they age, my slowness still, embarrassingly, almost always is less slow than those in my competitive set. and that's because, i think, i have sustainable footwear under me.

i also ran a division of saucony for 5 years and, while it was the bike division, i saw up close how the footwear sausage factory works.

i ran those races, over the past couple of years, in the bondi, not because i have any special affinity for it, but because i kept pulling out my asics flats, my adidas flats, and nothing was faster.

there have been shoes over the years that did some of what i wanted in a shoe. going back 25 years you'd find shoes like the reebok london tc, the nike air mariah, and the adidas rotterdam. what did all these shoes have in common? they all had a raised, cushioned (without being wobbly) forefoot. that's the idea. that's the killer app. this is what running shoe companies have just not been willing to do on a consistent basis.

i don't have any particular affinity for this shoe or this company. it's this idea. this particular technical feature. if puma wants to champion this, or asics, brooks, well, fine. in a way, one company has championed it. newton. i think newton understands something, i just think the hoka bondi executes it better. hoka and newton are both focusing on the forefoot, and helping it, maximizing it rather than minimizing it. that's the idea that i think will carry forward.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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Not to sound elitist, but when did 10 oz become a "light shoe"?

I agree. My Adidas Tempos are in the 8oz range and I consider them a light trainer, but not a light shoe by any means. Nevermind 10oz.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Hoka: Let's Get Real [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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"It seems like turning an ankle would be incredibly easy."

that's what i thought. that's what i was afraid of. that right there almost kept me out of this shoe. but, for me, i'm less likely to turn an ankle in this shoe than i was in my adrenalines, which were my shoes in all their iterations for upwards of a decade. i can only tell you that this was not, in practice, a problem.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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