Go out @ 270, hold it until you explode, then catch a draft somewhere.

:)

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Eli Curt

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Quote:

I use Godlen Cheetah, and the Critical Power curve plateaus at 3 hrs at a CP of 267W. I do not believe I could hold this for 5 hrs
My FTP is 270

Something here doesn't seem right. I agree with your assessment that if your FTP is 270, you cannot hold 267 for 5 hours. I would guess closer to 1:10.

Doesn't make much sense to me either, but I thought that was one of the intended purpose of the CP Curve, to predict unknown time critical power. It may be a reflection of the type fo training I do. I generally do 2x20 @95-100% and lots of 80-85 stuff with some 70% for WU and CD. I dont have data for a 1' or 5' all out effort, and I dont have data for stand alone bike rides where I destroy myself outside of ~90' or so.

Regardless, I just wonder what the ST collective think of Z3 for 5 hrs?
I'm sure some of you guys have raced a century and got some FTP% ballpark I can throw out there.

I've got 3 buddies going and I know they will attack from the gun and blow up. I want to just set the cruise and wait patiently.
I'm not afraid of going too deep, I am afraid of going too deep way too early.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Have you done Cheha in the past? 5 or sub 5 is incredibly hard. Plan on 5:30-6:00

I have not. I know I'm being a n00b. I'm just guessing on the time. I may very well melt out there and SAG back and you can laugh and point so as to draw others attention to my stupidity.

Truthfully though, it doesn't matter THAT much. As long as I don't under estimate the time too much, I should be able to just hit my watts and let the clock do its thing. If I'm off 30', I can drop to Z2 and cruise in.

That's why I'm looking for advice on pacing by power and not asking how to "avg 20 mph on a hilly course".

Forget the course for a second. I've done 100 miles at 4:50 (during a 112M ride with 3800 ft) and ran well for an hour afterwards. At Cheaha, I'll have to go up 7500', but I'll be able to completely kill myself (no run after), and I can draft!

My biggest concern with Cheaha is the chip seal. Can you tell me about the road surface?

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Avg power sort of goes out the window when you're in a pack. You either make it to the top with the group or wait for the next one to catch up, no?

Agree with Kdw. The difference between being in the pack and off the back of the pack is huge. I think you go out with the group and be a wheel sucker and when the pack starts to splinter, judge your strength and go with the right group. If you get spit out the back, it just gets very lonely.

If there are any hard climbs, you need to know the mileage markers because that is where the group will split. If you feel strong, take your turn in the rotation and pull. If not, draft and hang on for dear life. Rides tend to be self selecting.

I think it would be useful for his training to have at least a few sessions with lots of surges at 110-150% FTP, with recovery at 70%.

I hadn't planned on going with any of the surges.

I've done his once before on a 70 mile organized ride where I was just supporting my local club on one of my training days. Here we're 4 kitted out roadies that showed up from out of town and they quickly separated from the other 200 folks. I went through my normal routine and would catch them on my 2x20 pulls and loose them on the rests. I ended up with a long Z3 finish and managed to catch and loose them.

For this ride, I had planned to just set the cruise on X%FTP and draft when/if possible. Is that not a better idea than steady surges and recoveries? Even efforts are the fastest in a TT, right? I thought the surges would contribute to blowing me up more than steady moderate effort.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

My experience with these uphill surges is that the group hammers, most fall off, some fall back and catch up, but the whole group slacks over the top and down the back of the hill. I generally have found success letting the group hammer up the hill and I just stay steady up, over, and down. It seems to put me back into the group or even past them for the next climb.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

I guess it depends on how big the pack is....if you need to surge at 120% FTP every so often for 15-20 second so that you can then sit in at 40-60% FTP effort (or zero percent with several coasting breaks), then the surges are worth it for a faster overall time. Depends on the nature of the group.

Reading the responces about drafting in a pack tells me these people have not done Cheha. The only drafting part is the first 12 miles. After that its all uphill. I have done this ride 6 times. All around 5-545. I have been damn nearly dead every time.The main tactic is for you to pace yourself at a pace you can hold for 6 hrs. If you are feeling good with 12 miles to go after the last feed area then hammer then to have a good time. If you burn your matches early then the ride will become a suffer fest. As for the road. I ride my training wheels. The road is chip seal from the time you enter the park to when you begin to climb Cheha. Its rough chip seal. Not big bumps or pot holes just that narly tar/gravel buzz. No loose stuff just buzzy. The other major tactic is food and drink. If it is warm, people drop like flies from dehydration. So eat and drink ALL THE TIME. As for the footage of climbing. I know they say it is 7500'. But all I can say is that they have big feet. It feels like much more. More like 9000'. As for pointing at the new b, nope not happening. You just attempting to tackle a hard ride like this, finish or not, gets respect.

You make it sound like I just bit off a lot. *gulp*

So your 5:45, is that by the clock time or pedal time (pausing for stops)?
Do people even stop at aid stations? I assumed it was like special needs and you just cruise on through.

I hate chip seal.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Clock time. I skip the first, turn around at half way, and last feeds. Get a splash and go at the 3rd and 7th. Stop at the 2nd and 4th (Cheha top). Course is an out and back. You ride over Cheha twice. Turn around is 7 miles past Cheha. Coming back up the back side of Cheha is hardest for me. 7 miles of a constant 5%-6% will trash you mentally. I have seen untold numbers of people on the side of the road crying from being absolutely wasted. They are normally the people that have gone out like they have a "S" on their chest. But when they realized the "S" washes off it's too late. Also, just me, don't ride your tt bike. The hills are fast (50+) twisty descents. And you need all the climbing prowess you can get. It will be a blast. PM me and let me know what your kit is and I will keep an eye out. Have fun.

Well, you've spooked me for sure.

I just sold my roadie and the TT is my only choice. I will abandon the disc and aero helmet. :)

I'm going to be the only TT out there aren't I?

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

I have not done that particular ride, but I have done centuries and longer where there were people on TT bikes. They stay out of the packs and just do their own thing. I assume they are IM training. It's no cause for shame or self-conciousness.

So how did it go??
I'm fixing up for a Century ride and have found this thread interesting!

7hrs or some crap.
I just noodled around with some buddies, enjoyed the aid stations and took it easy.

Rumors are the road surface is better now and the course is more brutal. I'd love to give it a go now.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

congrats on completing what sounds like a pretty savage course. I'm not as strong a rider as you (FTP about 250 i think) so 7 hours is pretty impressive. I'm trying to aim for about 6:30 for my up coming sportive. it's about 2500m of climbing over 106miless

Quick question though did you climb at your threshold and were you able to maintain that for the climbs or did you go even less?

I had a similar FTP of 265W and did a 113k 'charity' ride last fall pretty much hammering it at 244W NP.

I say go for it at 230W.

On this day, I just had fun with friends. I didn't do anything really. It was a soft ride.

But, later that year I did our local 107 mile (2500ft elevation) ride at ~228w. I just rode a steady effort all day, didn't stop any, and finished in 4:45, it seems like.

It took a lot out of me. That was an 82ish IF. I was sad the last 45 minutes.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

it s very simple and your assessment is right: 230 is what you can do if your strong mentally and if your coach trained you properly. That said, i douth your coach did the job properly so.....


a low VI will give you a better chance at riding decent watts in the last half of the ride. But as it s a fondo, all those numbers dont mean much. Go with the front group, try to keep the spike as short and low as possible. you havent been train for those high VI ride....!!! use the aerobar to bridge gaps.....and try riding away in the final downhill!!!!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

What did you eat during that type of ride? I'm struggling with calorie intake at the moment. Can hold descent power (230 or so) for extended periods but if I'm not eating cliff bars and gels I'll bonk fairly quickly. I'm assuming this may be an overall "fitness" issue with low glycogen stores compared to a more seasoned cyclist, but am not really sure.

On A group rides I"m cramping up if I don't eat 5 or so gels while out while many others get by on 1 to 2 bottles of water.

Yeah, this whole thing happened just before Brain rescued me from doing stupid stuff like this.

Same thing I would eat for a iM-bike, ~330C/hr of concentrated sportsdrink. I dont get fancy with grub, just the same goop day after day.
Stupid legs cant even tell.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling