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Help me compare utility of two workouts?
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Riddle me this: Two rides of three hours; one outdoors and hilly, the other indoors on Kickr and steady (details below). The thing is, I feel pretty smashed at the end of that indoor effort with achy legs which feel tired for the rest of the day. Climbing stairs is painful.

Not nearly so much at the end of the outdoors ride, even though it has way higher TSS and NP.

Outdoors: TSS 258, NP 209W, AP 170W, VI 1.23 and IF 0.91
http://tpks.ws/zjXAQ


Indoors: TSS 172 NP 185W, AP 180W, VI 1.03 and IF 0.75
http://tpks.ws/tQCN

Is the indoors ride actually better for me (I am training for ironman and this is my medium ride) or a better use of 3 hours? Not sure what to make of it.

My long ride is pretty much just an extended version of the outdoors ride.

Any insights most welcome. Mostly just interested in why I feel so smashed at the end of a 0.75 effort and not so much the other.
Last edited by: iSam: Nov 29, 15 14:48
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [iSam] [ In reply to ]
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For one, the outdoor ride is not entirely truthful. When you stop your Garmin for rest, refuel or flat repairs it skews the data. If you leave your garmin running it will give you a more realistic example of NP, IF, etc... since it will take those stopped minutes into account.

edit: just saw there were rest breaks taken on the indoor ride too.
Last edited by: kyle h: Nov 29, 15 14:35
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [iSam] [ In reply to ]
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first question is how much you trust the Kickr data. seems funny that if you can do that outdoor ride, the indoor ride should be a walk in the park.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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Also do you feel like outdoors you're riding more in aero or on the bars vs the opposite when you ride indoors? What powermeter and Kickr software are you using? Do you have it so that the Kickr is controlled by the PM readings and not the Kickr readings?
Last edited by: kyle h: Nov 29, 15 14:35
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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All data is taken from my SRM which also controls the Kickr.

Same bike for both rides - my roadie (naughty I know).

One of my theories is that the road ride shares the load among more muscle groups - I stand for parts of the climbs, etc. My calves feel more tired at the end of the road ride, but my quads are no contest - they are buggered at the end of that indoor ride.

That road ride is also relatively sedate - I am pretty sure I have done a similar route at close to 238NP.
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [iSam] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Outdoors: TSS 258, NP 258W, AP 170W, VI 1.23 and IF 0.91
http://tpks.ws/zjXAQ


Indoors: TSS 172 NP 185W, AP 180W, VI 1.03 and IF 0.75
http://tpks.ws/tQCN

why is indoor ftp set to 247 while outdoor is 230(approx. 209/.91 and 185/.75)?
also, the NP of outdoors was 209 not 258

why does your power never hit 0 on the graphs even though you are clearly coasting? do you have set to not include zeros? if so will totally screw with your data and what you think you are doing
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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uuhm

Sorry, mis typed TSS as NP.

My FTP settings are pretty borked because I am too scared to test. I bump it down when I am not training properly and then slowly bump it up again when I am (problem is that there are so many places to change it, I always get it wrong and or miss one - Garmin, TP, TrainerRoad, etc). Am booked for an FTP test this Thursday.

I assumed it would be the same for both as I copied the data from TP. That said, I think I may have bumped my FTP up after that road ride as I didn't find it very hard. Maybe it still uses the old FTP to calculate relevant metrics for that one.

No idea why the power never hits zero. Are you sure? I record zeros - will have to delve into the actual data I guess.
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
Quote:
Outdoors: TSS 258, NP 258W, AP 170W, VI 1.23 and IF 0.91
http://tpks.ws/zjXAQ


Indoors: TSS 172 NP 185W, AP 180W, VI 1.03 and IF 0.75
http://tpks.ws/tQCN


why is indoor ftp set to 247 while outdoor is 230(approx. 209/.91 and 185/.75)?
also, the NP of outdoors was 209 not 258

why does your power never hit 0 on the graphs even though you are clearly coasting? do you have set to not include zeros? if so will totally screw with your data and what you think you are doing

Training peaks applies a smoothing to the graph by default. If you move the slider to the left it removed the smoothing and you will see zeros in there.
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [iSam] [ In reply to ]
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I actually have an outdoor loop that is very similar to your outdoor loop in terms of distance and elevation gained, even down to the number of main climbs on the route. I know that if I go out and ride that loop hard it is a tough workout, tougher than a steady 3 hour ride on a trainer (not that I've ever done one, but I could imagine).

Having said that your average power was actually higher on the indoor ride, so your output was higher, but 'physiological cost' was higher on the outside ride due to the variability. It could be that you are better accustomed to deal with the nature of the outdoor ride rather than the constant steady output of the trainer ride? I know when I started training for tri's and I would go out and do a steady 2.5 hour ride on the tt bike my legs would get this really heavy, accumulated fatigue feeling that i wouldn't necessarily get from a traditional road ride with ups and downs. Now those ups and downs smash my legs more than a steady ride.
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Re: Help me compare utility of two workouts? [mvogt46] [ In reply to ]
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Cheers

That does suggest the long steady effort may be a necessary evil for a while.
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