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Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains
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Hi all. I’m in the market for a new “jack of (almost) all trades” road bike and am hoping to get some bike recommendations from the collective wisdom of the group. I’m 41, and a heavier rider (approximately 205 pounds) looking to build this one out for long rides in the mountains (e.g. sustained grades up to 12-16%--brief sections can be 20%+). For example, my wife and I will be riding Mountains of Misery again this year (http://www.mountainsofmisery.com/planning-your-ride/). I ride almost exclusively solo (non-drafting). Disc brakes are a must. So, in short, I want a bike that does it all, but doesn’t have to be the best in any one category. Ideally, I’m hoping for a light aero road bike that is comfortable for long rides. Also, I anticipate being in the saddle up to 8 hours a day on this bike, but won’t be racing it (But to be completely honest, I want it to be able to perform relatively well just for my own sake of mind and bragging rights)..

My day-to-day road bike is a Specialized Tarmac Pro, but I haven’t ridden it on a ride over 4 hours. I had a 2016 Specialized Roubaix, but sold it. I can’t really explain why, but I replaced the Roubaix frame last year (from a 2009 frame) and the new frame didn’t feel quite right to me (Perhaps it was too soft in the rear (??), but I’m not sure if that was really it.).

I test rode a 2014 Cervelo S3 which felt relatively comfortable and stiff enough (and aero). The S3 Disc frame may be the leading option now for a build. Am I missing other bikes that might fit my potential jack of all trades list? The Trek Madone doesn’t have disc brakes so I crossed it off the list. I’ll test ride the Trek Domane SLR 7 Disc, but it seems both relatively heavy and not aero. I crossed off the Specialized Venge and Pinarello Dogma F8 Disc because I was told they’re too stiff for what I’m looking for (multiple sources).

For gearing, I will likely build with a 50/34 compact with the Shimano di2 9150 groupset, but substituting the XTR RD-M9050 Rear Derailleur from the MTB di2 lineup to give me a broader range of cassette options.


Any input, suggestions and personal experiences are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Eric
Last edited by: edcook: Apr 2, 17 6:52
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass but is the 205lbs likely to change?

I love my 2012 Willier SL. Im not sure if they have disc road bikes though. I can understand your desire for disc brakes. I spent last summer in Boulder and will move there in two months. I'm also searching for a mountain road bike and will probably get a cross bike.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Why does the Tarmac not fit your needs?

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [damn lucky] [ In reply to ]
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damn lucky wrote:
I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass but is the 205lbs likely to change?

Not smart ass at all. I'll drop to about 198 by Memorial Day weekend when we do Mountains of Misery, but years of powerlifting (and genetics) don't give me much room to move down (if at all) from there. To put it in perspective, I was about 188 when I graduated high school at 17 and was about 215 when I was in the military and exercising about 3+ hours a day (combination of weights, running, swimming, and calisthenics, etc.).

Thanks for the Wilier tip. I haven't noticed them in local shops, but will take a look.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
Why does the Tarmac not fit your needs?

Most importantly, because my wife approved the purchase of a new bike, thus bringing me closer to the correct number of bikes (n+1). Also, my Tarmac is a standard 53/39 with a short cage derailleur and is rim brake. I live in a pancake flat area with my Tarmac and it would be nice to have a separate bike setup for when we head to the hills. I could certainly change out the crankset and rear derailleur on the Tarmac to a compact crank with a long cage RD, and may do that if I don't find/decide on another bike. But, would prefer to buy another bike rather than just converting this one if I can find the right one.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Have you looked into the Orbea Avant? It is endurance oriented (as opposed to the race oriented Orca) with options for Di2 and disc brakes.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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3T Exploro maybe? Kinda what you are describing but also kinda not. Might be worth looking at.

Edit: also good call on the n+1 :)
Last edited by: talking head: Apr 2, 17 13:15
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [talking head] [ In reply to ]
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talking head wrote:
3T Exploro maybe? Kinda what you are describing but also kinda not. Might be worth looking at.

Edit: also good call on the n+1 :)

Thanks. I appreciate the 3T Exploro suggestion. I hadn't heard of it before, and took a look. I don't think it would be in line with what I'm looking for, but definitely one to keep in mind for the future and a potential gravel/mixed surface bike.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure about what bike to recommend, but you may want to consider a Praxis Zayante crank. It's hollow forged aluminum and its weight is a little less than an Ultegra 6800. It's available in a 48/32. I don't know if the 32 could be combined with a 50 (call Praxis), but if it could, combining a 32 up front with a 34 in the rear would get you a very low gear.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Just one note on your components. Shimano Di2 firmware won't allow combining road and MTB front and rear derailleur. So the XTR RD won't work with the DA FD. The closest available option is the Ultegra 6870 GS med cage RD which is spec'd to work with 32 tooth cog and would prolly shift a couple more teeth.
Last edited by: SummitAK: Apr 3, 17 8:58
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
Just one note on your components. Shimano Di2 firmware won't allow combining road and MTB front and rear derailleur. So the XTR RD won't work with the DA FD. The closest available option is the Ultegra 6870 GS mod cage RD which is spec'd to work with 32 tooth cog and would prolly shit a couple more teeth.


Thanks. I believe you're correct. Mechanics at LBS said it works, but multiple people have now told me it won't work and if I'm reading the Shimano website (compatibility section) correctly, it doesn't work. So, I'll have to see what the mechanics are basing it on.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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i would like to know what your position is. i can see why the tarmac and the roubaix weren't both the right bikes. i can barely ride the tarmac (barely get the front low enough) while the roubaix, no way! i could never get the bars low enough unless i was on a bike so small i'd need a 160mm stem.

so, i think you should start there. if what you want is a bike that is sufficiently stiff i think you were on the right track with the cervelo, tho the R3 is the real workhorse. just, i also have a hard time riding THAT bike because i almost can't get it low enough.

position first. then we can talk. ideally you provide the x and y from the bb to the handlebar clamp.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Those mechanics are basing their recommendations on incompetence.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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I am 225, ride lots of mountains. I've had a Giant Defy with disc for 18 months and have tinkered a bit with the components.

I would go Ultegra instead of DA. The gearing on DA is more limited, and for the cost difference I would throw in a power meter. Being able to measure your efforts over long days helps more than the few grams you save with DA. I run Ultegra mechanical and have nothing but good things to say about it. Either way, get something where you can run an 11-32 at a minimum.

If you go disc, get 160mm rotors. The two piece dissipate the heat better than the cheap ones, which will keep them from warping or over-heating. I would even do a 180 on the front.

Cube Agree
KTM Relevator
Colnago C60
Boardman SLR

If cost is an issue, I haven't seen much that can touch the Defy.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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edcook wrote:
xtrpickels wrote:
Why does the Tarmac not fit your needs?


Most importantly, because my wife approved the purchase of a new bike, thus bringing me closer to the correct number of bikes (n+1). Also, my Tarmac is a standard 53/39 with a short cage derailleur and is rim brake. I live in a pancake flat area with my Tarmac and it would be nice to have a separate bike setup for when we head to the hills. I could certainly change out the crankset and rear derailleur on the Tarmac to a compact crank with a long cage RD, and may do that if I don't find/decide on another bike. But, would prefer to buy another bike rather than just converting this one if I can find the right one.
With the exception of the rim brakes, the Tarmac seems perfect for the hills, assuming it fits correctly.
You'd have a bit of a mismatch if you were using the Tarmac on the flat and an aero framed bike on the hills. Not that you couldn't, I just don't really understand what the Tarmac would be for. If I was you and the disc brakes were a deal-breaker, I'd sell the Tarmac and add it to the budget. I personally think an "aero" frame is relatively unimportant for a road bike, especially in the hills. However if I got one I'd use it on the flat too. Better to have one really nice bike with a spare set of wheels (nice light and stiff ones for the hills and a deep section set for the road) than to have two bikes and always be riding a lesser proportion of what you've actually spent on your bikes..

I have a Canyon Ultimate CF (a similar style bike to the Tarmac, I'd say) and if I was getting a second bike, the Ultimate would be the one dedicated for the hills. Although, really the Ultimate is perfect for both. If I felt the need for an aero frame, I'd sell the Ultimate and use the new bike all round. If you're getting a second, third, fourth bike at least fill a gap in your arsenal! I've 3 bikes, one for triathlon, one for the road and a cyclocross/general purpose bike. It's enough justifying the storage space and cost of those 3. If I was going to own 4 simultaneously, there's no way it would duplicate one of those, it would probably be a mountain bike.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Check out the Scott Addict disc. Not "aero" per-say, but decently light, disc brakes, nice looking bike and rides nice. Just helped a buddy build his up, turned out really nice.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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So, you want a bike that's both a light climber and can support your very muscular build, is aero but has disc brakes, is all day comfortable but not too soft, and combines a Shimano MB rear Di2 derailleur with road Di2 shifters/front derailleur/junction boxes/battery? Surprised you didn't ask for puncture proof tires with super low .crr and a supple ride, too.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 3, 17 16:48
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i would like to know what your position is. i can see why the tarmac and the roubaix weren't both the right bikes. i can barely ride the tarmac (barely get the front low enough) while the roubaix, no way! i could never get the bars low enough unless i was on a bike so small i'd need a 160mm stem.

so, i think you should start there. if what you want is a bike that is sufficiently stiff i think you were on the right track with the cervelo, tho the R3 is the real workhorse. just, i also have a hard time riding THAT bike because i almost can't get it low enough.

position first. then we can talk. ideally you provide the x and y from the bb to the handlebar clamp.

From November 25, 2015 Guru fit (full fit)
Saddle vertical 720
Saddle horizontal 228
Handlebar vertical 681
Handlebar horizontal 496

Saddle height over bottom bracket 805
Saddle setback - 82
Drop from saddle to bars 76
Reach from saddle to bars 583

That was on my Tarmac. I'll probably take about 20mm of spacers out of the front over the course of the next month.

More recently on Guru (2017) just to check on bike frame sizes (not full fit-I would probably use the numbers from thorough fit above, but don't know if this might provide some insight)

Saddle Vertical 732
Saddle Horizontal 214
Handlebar Vertical 661
Handlebar Horizontal 503

Saddle height over bottom bracket 801
Saddle setback - 70
Drop from saddle to bars 96
Reach from saddle to bars 581
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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Fit numbers aren't too restrictive.

My Vote is BMC Roadmachine

1. Aero features
2. Disc brakes / thru axles
3. Compliant for all day comfort
4. Geometry between Race and Endurance.
5. Already has DI2, just need to sub-in Ultegra long cage.
6. Dead sexy

http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/bikes/road/endurance-roadmachine-01-dura_ace_di2/#technical_details

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
Last edited by: xtrpickels: Apr 3, 17 18:29
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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I've heard rumours of a disc brake Emonda coming in the not too distant future, I'd wait for that.

I love my Emonda, easily the best climbing bike I've ridden. Not the best all round bike (My pick would be the S3 or old BMC SLX) but if you give the Emonda a little momentum up a hill it just keeps going. We've had a lot of people demo them and come back saying it's like there's a motor in the bike when you start climbing.
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Re: Help Finding Road Bike for Mountains [edcook] [ In reply to ]
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these are the only numbers you need to worry about, as far as road fit goes:

Handlebar vertical 681
Handlebar horizontal 496

you plunk these values in here, you look for a match here.

are you kind of leggy? seems like it. honest assessment, just in terms of fit, you're probably better on your roubaix than you are on your tarmac. if i might venture a wild guess, you're riding a 58cm tarmac, 120mm stem, -6 degrees pitch (that is, 6 degree stem flipped downward), maybe 45mm or so spacers under the stem (including the headset dust cover). yes you can ride that, but the roubaix would not need most of those spacers.

if you want a climbing bike, kind of rides like your tarmac, fits you well, i kind of like you on the cervelo, R series, 58cm.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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