approximate max HR of about 206 (which i never have been tested for) //

So how did you get this number?? My armchair guess is that you max is higher than this, maybe 215. IF that is the case then there is nothing wrong with your numbers, you cannot compare them to your buddies whose max HR's are under 200...

How would you test this accurately, as i always read most "self-test" undershoot the true value.
(I used the highest number my Garmin measured in the last 3 months)

How often do you run at an effort of 3 to 4?

If you're running 5k's and maybe a little more or less at 6.5-7 for every run, you won't adapt and will not have a lower HR when running.

For my athletes starting out going to long distance from hodge podge short distance stuff, a lot have high HR at the start. After a few MONTHS of training on longer runs at VERY slow paces, they start seeing adaptations. I'm talking walking 14 to 15 min/mile to keep the HR under 150... not even jogging.

It takes time and commitment, but it can be modified.

Keep in mind I'm not a dr. If you have concerns, by all means get an EKG and an echo and get checked out. I do every year as I don't want to be that poor guy racing full distance IM tri's that dropped after a 10k with a hidden heart issue. You could have no symptoms whatsoever and STILL have heart issues.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Yes.

You're welcome.

Hey Ryan,

Thanks for your advice, i read about things like the maffetone method where you start with everything below some threshold value and was never sure if this is any good as i heard both positive and negative feedback. I currently run upto half marathon distance and wanted to do my first 70.3 after having completed some olympic distances.

How long would you say i had to stick strictly to such a way of running? and should i mix it with faster running or completely stick to the slow speed?

Many thanks and best regards,
Alex

Haha thank you :)

I usually do a treadmill test for getting approx. max HR. Do a warm up, then increase the pace to 1/2 marathon pace for about a mile or so, then increase the incline 2% every minute until you get spit off the back. And just when you think you are about to get spit off, go 30 more seconds, and then add a few beats to that number and you have your approx max.

You can also use the Bruce protocol, that should put you on the treadmill for between 15 to 22 minutes. It is a bit more blunt, but it gets the job done..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_protocol

That ramp test without an ECG doesn't put your mind at ease, though.

Many Thanks for the Advice, I will definitely do one or both of the tests! i'll better get some pillows for when i hit the wall behind the treadmill :D

I had at least a dozen "good" EKG's before I had a near heart death. They are pretty useless unless you are actually having some episode during those 10 to 20 seconds you are hooked up. Best bet is a stress echo if you are really worried, you get a lot more information there, but even then it could be clear and not showing an underlying problem.

In all likelihood he just has a high HR, which is probably normal for him. He has seen a 206 already, my guess is that he probably has around 10 more beats for a max. I once had an athlete who had a max of 260, ran 8 minute miles at 180 without breathing hard. She was one of the top runners in Mexico at the time and did triathlons as a top AG'er. Everything was the same as you and me, perceived effort, race pace % to max, threshold pace, etc. Except that she had these incredibly high numbers on her monitor all the time!!

Many thanks for this insight, didn't even know a Max HR of >250 was phisically possible :P
I will definitely try all three things, asses my Max HR more accurately, talk to / visit a doctor and try to do more training at low efforts (I am guilty of always going more or less hard).

Hey Vanity.

I am having a similar issue this year coming off of my off season AND I have a MAF background. I did get a new HR monitor this year, but I don't think it is wrong, or at least not by much. However, I found that after about 30 minutes of running at about 165-170, my HR settles down to 145-155 which is normal for my easy runs. I don't know why my body is requiring 30 minutes to warm up this year, but that is what it's doing... Have you any "long" runs this year to see if your HR settles?

I did a 17km run lately and i think i saw something similar, but i ran somewhere between 6-7min per km... so at a rather slow pace. Did you run at a constant pace or do you adjust your pace according to you HR?

Normally, I would adjust my pace according to my HR. But since my HR has been weird, I have been running a constant pace and eventually my HR would come down to a Zone 2. Note that my constant pace is quite slow as I am just getting back into things, but my 5k PR is almost a minute slower than yours.

I know that feeling of running zone 2... i tried to stick to it, but when literally everyone passes you it's hard to do so mentally :p

Hey Alex, take a look at a sample plan I created for 70.3 tri's.

I like the approach for running of 3 a week min. 1 is speed. 1 is tempo or strength. 1 is long and slow.

I would expect changes within 4 to 6 weeks of implementing a balanced plan if you stick to it. But, EASY has to be EASY and HARD has to be HARD. Training in the grey most of the time won't change anything. You can always perform periodic run tests (maybe every 30 days) of 1.5 miles and check avg HR and pace to get a bird's eye view if you are adapting the right way.

https://docs.google.com/...ufiBEroGT6Jr/pubhtml

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Hey Ryan!

Many thanks for your advice and the Plan.
Your approach sounds very good and i will give it a shot :)

Hello Vanity,

It might be interesting to check your pulse the old fashioned way with your finger over your wrist and time the beats for a short interval like 10 seconds or 30 seconds.

I have seen errors in readings from a chest strap and recently from a finger pulse oximeter.

The oximeter error was caused by atrial fibrillation.

Also with you finger you can feel the strength and rhythm of the beat.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Good luck! Hit me back with any questions.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Many thanks, just bought your plan on TP ;)

Awesome! Thank you!

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Very Welcome :)

monty wrote:

I had at least a dozen "good" EKG's before I had a near heart death. They are pretty useless unless you are actually having some episode during those 10 to 20 seconds you are hooked up. Best bet is a stress echo if you are really worried, you get a lot more information there, but even then it could be clear and not showing an underlying problem.

Hey monty, would you care to talk more about your experience? Totally understand if it's personal and you'd rather not share. I'm going through some issues that I'm trying to track down. Hopefully I'm not hijacking this thread.

Backstory: Currently 31 years old and healthy, 6'-0" and 155 lbs; been training since age 23. I did my second IM in July 2016 and took the following fall mostly off. In hindsight I likely dug a bit of a hole during the lead up. I started training more consistently at the end of winter.

Mid April 2017 I was out for a short run after a long-ish ride and I had an episode of sorts. I felt like a rubber band was painfully wrapped around my heart. Immediately after I watched my HR spike to 206 after holding steady at 165-170 for some time. For reference, I tend to hit the mid 190s for a 5k; 400m intervals in the dead of Houston summer has only gotten me to 203 once before. This episode occurred during a brick run where I was talking with a friend, in other words, not terribly taxing.

Unfortunately I had 2 more episodes in the following weeks so I went to a cardiologist. Blood work, echo, EKG, and a stress echo turned up nothing, though they limited me to 160 bpm during the stress echo (not sure why). $1500 later and the verdict was to drink less coffee. I was drinking 3-4 cups/day but have since dropped to 1 cup in the morning. My cardiologist was adamant about limiting caffeine intake, but otherwise not worried about the situation.

My training was sporadic throughout the rest of the year and I didn't have any issues. I started to resume consistent training at the end of last year. I had another episode last month where I experienced the constricting feeling followed by a HR spike to 209, only for it to settle back down.

I also experience potentially related symptoms - my HR occasionally feels heavy, like it's thumping harder than normal, though not accelerated. This occurs both during exercise or at rest, sometimes associated with acute pain. However, standing up after bending over for a period can trigger it, though perhaps that's just mind games.

Below are links to my Garmin files if you're curious. This is not an issue with the HR monitor.

Episode 1: https://connect.garmin.com/.../activity/1679449522
Episode 2: https://connect.garmin.com/.../activity/2458512220

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Bad week for heart issues, someone over in the lavender room just asked a question and here is what I wrote, some of it will be relevant to your situation;

Dont know about the dilation, but it is normal to have PVC's for athletes. My doc says 100 to 200 a day is no problem, Even a few more would not warrant anything drastic. Dont know how many you were/are having, but I have found that a lot of outside things can affect electrical activity in your heart.

Cutting the booze and stimulants is a great start, get some blood work and pay attention to minerals, especially magnesium and sodium and potassium. Could be you are just deficient in one or more of those and it is an easy fix. A lot of docs overlook this simple but often the case solution with athletes.

Stress, sleep deprivation, workout loads, and a few other things can also be big factors. Take a good look at your lifestyle and see if you are big in any of these categories. What happens a lot of times is when you start to mitigate some of these things, your rhythm gets better. If you see progress then you are heading the right direction.

When I had my episode it was super low magnesium/sodium, lack of sleep, and a ocean swim race in the middle of this. Along with the usual life stresses, 3 to 5 cups of coffee, and drinking a couple drinks 3 or 4 times a week. The race was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak, but when reflecting on the whole episode with some distance and history, all those other things threw in their lots too..

And now way to really know which one or how many had I not been doing and nothing would have happened. But when you race and train like I did, there are just 1000's of opportunities to have a full basket of bad things and then the trigger that fires it off.

Stress echo would be good, I get one every year now for the past 16 years. I also did my first calc test last year to add to my information. If any turn negative then I will go to the next level, but until then I just mitigate all the stuff that goes into that nasty basket..