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HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton?
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My significant other is about to travel to Age Group Worlds in Edmonton for the standard (olympic) distance. Worlds is governed by ITU and not USAT, so they have really confusing and contradicting rules about what types of bikes they allow in the draft-illegal format. I'm wondering if anyone can give a yes or no answer on whether or not a Shiv is allowed into the event, even though it is famously UCI illegal (which ITU says it still listens to, even in the draft-illegal races). All my looking around through slowtwitch and calling USAT folks has really left me no further towards an answer. Spending thousands on travel to be told the bike is illegal would be a huge buzzkill. Most of the online consensus says it is most likely illegal, but so are tons of other seat arrangements/saddles/etc but officials don't give a flying hoot about the age groupers.

tl;dr- is the Shiv legal or not for the standard distance AG worlds in Edmonton?
Last edited by: SwimBikeRunGV: Aug 26, 14 14:45
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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ITU rules specify that draft legal bikes must conform to UCI 3:1 shape restrictions. But that stipulation is missing from the draft illegal section so she should be fine.
Certainly plenty of Shivs at AG in the past.
The rules do specify a traditional pattern for tubing which would eliminate the Dimond/Falco.
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the response! It was hard to find photos from past AG races at worlds, the elite event really overshadowed the online presence.
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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I raced my Quintana Roo CD0.1 at the ITU Duathlon World Championships last year in Ottawa, Canada.

Same governing body, same country, same >3:1 bike... I was not disqualified.

Alex Arman

Strava
Last edited by: doublea334: Aug 26, 14 15:09
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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this is closest I got to an answer

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rch_string=;#5172905


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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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ITU has no rules about frame shapes (unlike UCI) for non-drafting events.

I raced a Shiv (tri, not road frame) in London, at the ITU AG WC last year.

You'll be fine.

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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Last edited by: leftarmbandit: Aug 27, 14 9:28
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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Thats not actually true. ITU has rules they explicitly defer to UCI rules for bike equipment. However they have never enforced the 3:1 ratio rule. Probably because it is never protested.

Technically the ITU rules defer to UCI rules for which type of bike, setup, etc with a few notable exceptions like position (you are allowed 5 cm forward of the BB) and using a disk covers are allowed (5.2.c.vii). There is not a specific mention of the 3:1 rule but since it is not excepted it is technically in force.

That being said I have raced in 4 ITU paraTriathlon races this year (same rules) and it has not been enforced. Additionally I've raced several last year and at every world championship since 2009 and have never seen it enforced. Personally I ride a shiv TT because I'm worried that someone will file a protest and I'll be disqualified.

ITU rules: http://www.triathlon.org/...14v2-highlighted.pdf
Section 5.2.a.ii

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Last edited by: leftarmbandit: Aug 27, 14 9:28
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [leftarmbandit] [ In reply to ]
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you highlighted the draft legal rules section. and 3:1 dimensions rule is certainly specified.

see the next section after your highlights for non-DL technical rules. which brings me to my misstatement: ITU does indeed limit saddle and bar positions, and non-traditional frames (eg, no seattube, left chainstay, etc.). i did not know this.

but a shiv [tri] *should* be fine. I was on one last year, as were many others, in London.

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
Last edited by: philly1x: Aug 27, 14 10:27
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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The Highlighted sections in the document are ITU's rule changes for this year. I did not make them.

As you note they do not specifically exempt from the 3:1 rule so that means technically it is still in effect since ITU rules defer to the UCI rules except where specifically noted..

You'll note that ITU does provide for the use of wheel covers which are not allowed under UCI rules. If the 3:1 rule was not in effect then ITU would have to declare it like they do for disk covers.

All that being said there are rules on the books that ITU does not enforce. I'd say it is highly unlikely that they would decide to enforce the 3:1 rule on their own. However if you are using a bike that is not 3:1 compliment and a person who finishes behind you files a protest you might find yourself disqualified especially if there is a podium at stake. I'd hate to have that happen to me so I use a UCI compliant bike.

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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [leftarmbandit] [ In reply to ]
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leftarmbandit wrote:
As you note they do not specifically exempt from the 3:1 rule so that means technically it is still in effect since ITU rules defer to the UCI rules except where specifically noted...
i'm not sure the rules are read that way. for DL races, the (UCI) 1:3 ratio is explicitly cited. this rule is NOT cited for NDL race rules.

wheel covers are prohibited in DL racing. they are fairings. fairings are not permitted. this rule does not apply for NLD races.

you should also note that paratriathlon has different rules than either DL or NDL racing.
no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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I think your significant other is good to go: http://www.slowtwitch.com/...echctr/trirules.html
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [SwimBikeRunGV] [ In reply to ]
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I did not see them do any special check on my bike or others when we checked the bikes in for the sprint race on Thursday. They did check each helmet, and mine barely got it. Hope I have no issues sunday. will need to buy a new one. they checked bar end plugs.

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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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philly1x wrote:
ITU has no rules about frame shapes (unlike UCI) for non-drafting events.

I raced a Shiv (tri, not road frame) in London, at the ITU AG WC last year.

You'll be fine.


Actually they do, I met two Team USA members today who were not allowed to race their DiMond bikes and there was a guy who wasn't allowed to race his Falco. The US guys ended up buying new bikes on site to race. Funny enough, one of them bought a Shiv :) (The other bought a Venge)

Bikes have to conform to the traditional double triangle frame shapes. This was apparently communicated out to the federations in February.


Rodney
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Last edited by: rbuike: Aug 29, 14 21:45
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Re: HELP! Shiv frame legal/illegal for AG Worlds Edmonton? [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Traditional double diamond shape is expressly stated in the rules for both DL and NDL races.

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
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