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Guppy Challenge, Week-2
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got a little behind! week-2 for guppies. post questions, failures, successes here.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I was focusing on band pull and keeping my head down and breathing with "split screen view" (one eye above water, one below). That's really hard with band pull but forcing "split screen view" makes you really honest about your head position and keeps hips from sinking (or at least sinking less)
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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A quick shout out of thanks to you for this. I used the Guppy PDFs to do my first 2.4 mile OW event this summer. 1:14! Now I'm actually enjoying swimming (at 48 years old it's about time). I was about to start the old Tarpon program and saw you started the challenge! I'm starting a week late, but it's cool that you're creating new content this year to keep it fresh. So I'm in for sure.
One request: kicking rhythm! If you have time to throw some of that in there, it would be great. On the last run through, the bi-lateral breathing ended up really help me improve my stroke balance. I found I don't need to understand WHY you do some drills, but they work. Finis ankle band arrives tomorrow, so I'm excited to see that in action.

Michael

(Second thanks to tigrchik for the last minute help before the event! You rock sister)
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
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tried the band with a pull buoy and I definitely snake through the pool!
My concern is that it could be due also to my lack of flexibility. Reaching out with the arm and stay tall in the water doesn't come easy and I'm concerned that I'm trying to reach out too much, so that my waist bends. could that be a reason?
I'm attaching two screenshots from the video I made. One I have feet tied and pull buoy, the other is regular swimming.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [trimarch] [ In reply to ]
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"tried the band with a pull buoy and I definitely snake through the pool! My concern is that it could be due also to my lack of flexibility."

no. it takes no flexibility to maintain proper body position. it's ENTIRELY technique related. 1-arm pulls. swimming with a buoy between your legs. tying your legs is good, but i'd like to see some flotation there so that you can concentrate on fixing the fishtail thing.

if you go to harbor freight or northern tool or probably even home depot look for innertubes for wheelbarrows. inflate that with enough air to float your legs, hopefully the hole is the right size for both feet, but just only. that will bind your feet together but also float your legs. when you fix the fishtail problem then we'll work on the other axis (keeping your legs from sinking).

fixing the fishtailing, that'll be like skipping from 3rd grade to 8th grade.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the feedback Dan!
so basically it's either swimming with a buoy (feet not tied) or inflated inner tube, and not band + buoy like I've been doing?
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [trimarch] [ In reply to ]
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most important thing FOR NOW is to keep your legs together. we'll worry about floating your legs later. that's more advanced. a buoy is by nature going to keep your legs together. if you squeeze the buoy with your thighs you can't very easily splay your legs - and this is what people often do to counteract twisting at the waist while breathing.

the further down you fix the legs - grabbing the buoy with your ankles instead of your thighs - the more together your legs will be. binding the ankles really keeps your legs together. but that also keeps you from kicking, and your legs will sink. that's a very severe drill. you have to be GOOD to do that drill. that's advanced.

we'll get there. but for now, i just want to keep your legs/feet together and fix the fishtailing. go ahead and float your legs.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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How's everyone liking those kick sets? My best 25 yd sprint kick has been 25 secs. I really slow down when I go further...about 1:05-1:10 for a 50 and (last night) 2:42-2:46 for a couple of 100's. I know the workout called for 4x50 kick but I wanted to see what my 100 number looked like. Kicking fast is hard, especially when you don't have great ankle flexibility.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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the reason you are doing 50s, and not 100s, is because kicking is hard for guppies. i don't want to wear you out. the most pitiful thing is a worn out guppy.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the reason you are doing 50s, and not 100s, is because kicking is hard for guppies. i don't want to wear you out. the most pitiful thing is a worn out guppy.

Yes, and thank you. I was kinda wondering how fast real swimmers do these. I did a bit better today (also using a center snorkel instead of a kickboard), but my average is just about 2:00 for 50m.

Still a long ways to go ...
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Kula] [ In reply to ]
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i once saw a guy in a yards pool kicking 50s in 32sec. i can't swim that fast.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the reason you are doing 50s, and not 100s, is because kicking is hard for guppies. i don't want to wear you out. the most pitiful thing is a worn out guppy.

That is hysterical.

Swimming masters this weekend, I got the following feedback, but am not sure what to do with it:

A) "You are dropping your elbow." : they showed me what they meant by that, but I don't really feel it myself and am having trouble correcting that.

B) your glide is too long, and your stroke rate too slow. (I call that breathing-but ok)

C) your head should be looking down at the bottom of the pool (to me this is the easiest to fix- but when I swim in a group I usually watch the feet of the person in front of me to make sure I am not too close or too far away... should I not do that?)

Are there any tips or drills for the elbow drop situation?

Thanks!
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Running mom] [ In reply to ]
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Running mom wrote:
C) your head should be looking down at the bottom of the pool (to me this is the easiest to fix- but when I swim in a group I usually watch the feet of the person in front of me to make sure I am not too close or too far away... should I not do that?)

I started doing Masters 3 months ago, and I go 5 times a week. This would be my advice (others may have a different opinion):

I don't do flip-turns (haven't learned), so I use my split second at the wall to see if I'm catching up, or losing ground to the person in front of me. Aside from that I never* look up.

Having said that, if you feel you keep catching up to people, so much that you need to keep looking up to watch their feet, maybe you should ask them to move ahead of them, or lead that lane, or move up a lane.

*There is this lady at our masters that refuses to move down to a slower lane, but she just can't hang-on in our lane. When we are doing hard 100s, she just can't finish them, and she'll switch to backstroke and move very slowly; if I am behind her I will be looking up a few times because I will catch up to her. The first few times, I made contact with her, and she got all pissy at me, even gave me the finger.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Running mom] [ In reply to ]
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A) that's easy to fix, but we're not there yet. it's easy to fix but it does take concentration.
B) don't worry about that. ignore that for now.
C) if your legs sink it could be that your head is too high in the water. dev paul wrote on a thread somewhere about this challenge that during some of the drills (1-arm pulls) he was practicing the discipline of 1 eye in 1 eye out of the water during breathing.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I think WornOutGuppy can be my new name. I'm wondering why I can kick on my back arms extended and manage the sets but immediately lose forward motion kicking prone with a kick board? It takes easily twice the effort and time prone as it does on my back.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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We did 3 rounds of 4x25 band-only swimming at masters tonight. That's a heck of a core workout. Coach suggested a front quadrant (almost catch-up style) stroke would help to keep your mass forward and legs up. That worked for me along with a higher stroke rate and a sharper angle of entry (so I could initiate my catch sooner).
Last edited by: JoelO: Dec 15, 16 20:16
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Any advice on fixing the fish tailing?
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [owen.] [ In reply to ]
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owen. wrote:
Any advice on fixing the fish tailing?


Put some weight in your trunk. That ought to do it.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
if you go to harbor freight or northern tool or probably even home depot look for innertubes for wheelbarrows. inflate that with enough air to float your legs, hopefully the hole is the right size for both feet, but just only. that will bind your feet together but also float your legs. when you fix the fishtail problem then we'll work on the other axis (keeping your legs from sinking).

fixing the fishtailing, that'll be like skipping from 3rd grade to 8th grade.

Picked up the wheelbarrow innertube. Swam with it an felt like my legs were going from side to side. Felt somewhat rigid, but like a pendulum in the lane.

Thoughts?
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Gamecocci] [ In reply to ]
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"Swam with it an felt like my legs were going from side to side."

see notes above on "fishtailing". that's exactly what i want to uncover with this drill. here's the remedy: stop fishtailing.

yes, easier said than done. if you keep doing this drill you will eventually stop your fishtailing. you'll fix what's wrong. the problem is in how you breathe. the mechanics of breathing. if you do this drill with a snorkel you won't fishtail nearly as badly. that tells you what's causing this.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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 I have to say that I kinda "liked" workout #3 - following the 1-arm pulls with a 50 kick. It was a good mix up of working different muscles and seemed productive.

I'm sure I still look super awkward breathing on my off side (left), but it is starting to feel a little better.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Kula] [ In reply to ]
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Kula wrote:
I have to say that I kinda "liked" workout #3 - following the 1-arm pulls with a 50 kick. It was a good mix up of working different muscles and seemed productive.

I'm sure I still look super awkward breathing on my off side (left), but it is starting to feel a little better.

I agree with the 50 kicks. I also like a the 4,3,2,1 ladder aftet that. Unfortunately, I need to take a week or 2 off but I'll be back.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, how brilliant is this. I am enjoying this dialog. I have been a long-time awful swimmer (well, middle of the pack, but not really good), and this dialog is allowing me to think differently about how I swim, and where the problems are. It is also giving me the opportunity to understand why I am doing certain drills, which is something fundamental that I have missed in other swimming programs. Thank you.
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Swam with it an felt like my legs were going from side to side."

see notes above on "fishtailing". that's exactly what i want to uncover with this drill. here's the remedy: stop fishtailing.

yes, easier said than done. if you keep doing this drill you will eventually stop your fishtailing. you'll fix what's wrong. the problem is in how you breathe. the mechanics of breathing. if you do this drill with a snorkel you won't fishtail nearly as badly. that tells you what's causing this.

On the fishtailing front, I tried an interesting set today with band:

100m band with pull buoy in between upper leg
100m band no buoy
100m band with pull buoy between ankles
100m band no buoy

repeat the above

I actually found the band with buoy between the ankles the hardest. My core felt like I was doing a plank the entire time to keep my feet from fishtailing all over the place....more so than the other two (buoy between leg and no buoy).
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I had no trouble with the buoy between the ankles the other night. I felt a lot of tension in my core and quads when I was doing the band-only work.
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