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Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition*
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Subject should probably have a few people interested and confused. I was too when I learned what my body was capable of.
Apparently I have the PH balance of a pond in Chernobyl - because I rust bike components like no ones business.

The Skinny:
We all sweat. I sweat more than anyone I know in the entire world. I mean I soak through two towels on an hour trainer ride.
Its the nastiest thing about me. It is almost embarrassing. My fiance would leave me if we had to train side by side. Fortunately we share a kickr for now.

In that sweat is an unfathomably saltiness. Fe2O3 written all over this.
I have seized up two front derailleurs, 2 bottom brackets, 2 rear brakes and corroded my way through my original Garmin HRM.
This is even with keeping the fan on the bike to try and wick away some of the moisture. Dabbing everything dry with a new towel at the end of every trainer ride. My mechanics have even gone as far as using marine grade grease to try and stop this onslaught of rust and had little success.


Currently riding a Trek SC7.5 (2014) and wondering if this is just not the bike for me.
Doesn't help the fiance just got a Liv Avow with Di2 and I am quite jealous. Though is an upgrade the right move?
Anyone else had this problem?


If it helps sway opinions - my sponsor gets me 20% off Giant brands - though I would gladly pay full price for something that just wont seize up on me.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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A new frame isn't going to change anything about seizing up rear brakes, front derailleurs and bottom brackets.

Go ride outside, problem solved!
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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I may give you a run for your money. My sweating situation is the close to yours. I took my bike into the shop for a pre-race tune/checkup and the bike shop worker came out after his look over and proceeded to scold me (yell) for lack of maintenance -- pointing out all the salt in every crevice. I calmly took it and then proceeded to tell him that the bike had a FULL rebuild 3 weeks prior and he was looking at 3 weeks of riding (with external wipe downs after rides). I will lose 4+ pounds (64+ oz) in an hour of riding in 80+ degree tempo riding. Indoors at 65 degrees + fans I will lose 2-3 pounds per hour (32-48 ozs). I LAUGH at articles talking about hydrating (like 24-32 oz an hour recommendations).
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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aarondb4 wrote:

A new frame isn't going to change anything about seizing up rear brakes, front derailleurs and bottom brackets.

Go ride outside, problem solved!

Living in the north east - not possible in the winter.

Though thanks.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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If you do get a new bike, keep the old one as a trainer bike and destroy that bike.

Have you tried one of those sweat catcher deals that attaches to the bars and the seat and catches the sweat before it gets to the bike?

I sweat heavily too, I typically drape a towel over the bars and down the top tube to catch sweat. I try to keep it out of the headset and stem area, but I train on a roadie in the winter.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [holograham] [ In reply to ]
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holograham wrote:
I may give you a run for your money. My sweating situation is the close to yours. I took my bike into the shop for a pre-race tune/checkup and the bike shop worker came out after his look over and proceeded to scold me (yell) for lack of maintenance -- pointing out all the salt in every crevice. I calmly took it and then proceeded to tell him that the bike had a FULL rebuild 3 weeks prior and he was looking at 3 weeks of riding (with external wipe downs after rides). I will lose 4+ pounds (64+ oz) in an hour of riding in 80+ degree tempo riding. Indoors at 65 degrees + fans I will lose 2-3 pounds per hour (32-48 ozs). I LAUGH at articles talking about hydrating (like 24-32 oz an hour recommendations).

Do your components seize up like mine?
I swear I have spent more than the bike was worth in maintenance on this thing.
The kicker is that with it being Bont/Trek - Everything is proprietary and costs beaucoup $$$.

I searched the forum and saw some people will spray down their bike with a hose after long races and rides.
Is that really well advised?

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that a new frame or anything won't help, but sometimes riding outside is worse for corrosion than riding inside if you live somewhere with a cold winter.


If it's trainer rides that are the issue, your best bet is probably to buy a junkier bike for just the trainer, and set it up in the same position as your speed concept. It wouldn't even need any breaks or front derailleur to get corroded. You could also try and monitor how sweat gets into your bottom bracket, and wrap whatever is near in some kind of absorbing cloth so sweat can't drip.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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aarondb4 wrote:

If you do get a new bike, keep the old one as a trainer bike and destroy that bike.

Have you tried one of those sweat catcher deals that attaches to the bars and the seat and catches the sweat before it gets to the bike?

I sweat heavily too, I typically drape a towel over the bars and down the top tube to catch sweat. I try to keep it out of the headset and stem area, but I train on a roadie in the winter.

I do have the Allez Elite sitting around for winter trainer time...
Think you might be on to something there...

The bike goes for 2G - 2.2G in good condition on BlueBook so I don't think riding my TT into the ground is a good business decision.
If it was a roadie that I had second hand I would agree with you for sure.

As for catchers - I had a catcher from CycleOps - but what was happening - I would sweat so much - the towel section would saturate and then ride down the elastic section and go right into the down tube. This in turn leads to the sweat dripping into the rear brake housing and the crank/bb section.
So I opted for the 2 towels idea for now. Which is a little better. But my rear brake locked up doing Muskoka. Always happens on race day.

The down tube roll down was where my thought that maybe a different geometry from a different bike might be viable.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [AngrySaki] [ In reply to ]
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AngrySaki wrote:
I agree that a new frame or anything won't help, but sometimes riding outside is worse for corrosion than riding inside if you live somewhere with a cold winter.


If it's trainer rides that are the issue, your best bet is probably to buy a junkier bike for just the trainer, and set it up in the same position as your speed concept. It wouldn't even need any breaks or front derailleur to get corroded. You could also try and monitor how sweat gets into your bottom bracket, and wrap whatever is near in some kind of absorbing cloth so sweat can't drip.

You might be on to something -
Perhaps a bike that is easier to work with (taking brake components off on trainer rides.)
Dis assembling the trek is a PITA.
Im a technical guy but I also do this as a stress reliever - not a stressor.
The last thing I want to do is have to become a wizard at attaching and detatching parts to this thing.
Id rather drink the crossfit koolaid than suffer through that...

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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Might be worth just switching to the Allez then for winter training. You can save the Trek for outdoor riding. As long as you have enough opportunity to ride the Trek outside before racing it, it shouldn't be too big a deal to train on a roadie in the winter.

I tend to use my cross bike on the trainer. I don't like clamping my fancy carbon bike into the trainer and then sweating all over it. My cross bike is aluminum and is meant to be abused so I use that then switch to the nice bike when I can go back outside.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I am on the same page.
My first coach was adamant that you "train on the bike you are going to race"
Which to my thought went "but I sweat like the best of them..."

I was saving the Allez to possibly get into crits but it hasnt happened yet.

Any transitioning issues from your Roadie to the Racer?
The geometry is very different but I am sure a good fit could remedy that.
Still a little reluctant.

The B-Side to all of this.
Still debating an upgrade. But maybe let it be a trophy to just ride outside.
Keep it safe from my face piss.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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You should be able to exactly match your TT position on your road bike, it will just be ugly and have bad handling, but that doesn't matter on the trainer. If you use an adjustable stem you should be able to get any position you might need. For the saddle position, I've flipped a setback seatpost around and it worked fine, although some seatposts may not work depending on the range of angles they support.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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jstoveld wrote:
Yeah I am on the same page.
My first coach was adamant that you "train on the bike you are going to race"
Which to my thought went "but I sweat like the best of them..."

I was saving the Allez to possibly get into crits but it hasnt happened yet.

Any transitioning issues from your Roadie to the Racer?
The geometry is very different but I am sure a good fit could remedy that.
Still a little reluctant.

The B-Side to all of this.
Still debating an upgrade. But maybe let it be a trophy to just ride outside.
Keep it safe from my face piss.

You will hear differing opinions on this, but the people who know what they are talking about IMO say you can train on a roadie in a roadie position and then move to the TT position before a race and be fine. I know of some damn fast triathletes who train year round on the roadie, then before a big race they will switch to the TT bike for a few long rides. It is really just about making sure your back and neck can handle the position, maybe slight changes in leg muscles used but not a huge difference.

I am pure cyclist now, haven't done a tri since my IM in 2014 so I ride roadie year round. But I kept my P2C for stage races with time trials, I put a few hundred miles on it this year for various events. I went straight from all year on my roadie to a 65 mile race on the TT bike, no issues. It was actually a team time trial with 4 pure cyclists on TT bikes, none of us had any issues having ridden roadie all year up to that point.

I'd ride the Allez on the trainer then once you have your race season planned swap to the Trek say 3-4 weeks before a big race, hopefully you will be outside by then, but even if it is inside it will be less wear and tear on the Trek.

Or as the other poster said, you can make a roadie mimic the TT position with a forward seatpost and some clip on's if you are really set on training in the TT position.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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This poses a new problem.
Allez is 10-Spd.
Kickr has 11spd cog.

Never an easy fix is it...

Guess Ill take the front Derail off and leave it in the big gear.
See if I can swap the front crank for anything at the shop.

Any advice on crank length?
There is definitely a difference.
I cant remember the total but I THINK the SC is 170 and the Allez is significantly longer. Like 185.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
Last edited by: jstoveld: Jul 29, 16 9:53
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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jstoveld wrote:
This poses a new problem.
Allez is 10-Spd.
Kickr has 11spd cog.

Never an easy fix is it...

Just slap an 11 speed chain on the Allez. It will work fine with your front chainrings and shouldn't be an issue with your rear derailleur.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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I sweat a lot too. Keeping extra towels and skull caps within arm's reach of the trainer so I can switch them without getting off. Also cooling fans. Big fast fans.

Then after the ride clean the bike with a dry towel and compressed air. Done.
Last edited by: Dilbert: Jul 29, 16 10:17
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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Start by getting a bigger fan or more fans. A 20" floor fan is maybe 4000CFM at best. To replicate even a 10mph headwind along a 3'x5' area, you need 10,000CFM. I have a 20" floor fan and I'm adding 2 wall mount fans as well to get close. You do get some mas air movement in the room, so the actual air moved is more than the rated CFM, FWIM. Point being that a ot more fans will help. Your internal thermostat is not happy with the rate of evaporation/heat removal so you sweat harder.

You might also put a dehumidifier in that room or consider a small portable AC unit you can duct outside. Anything to remove more heat and cool off the space.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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I sweat like you do. Maybe worse.

On the trainer, I use a sweat net. And a towel over the bars, shifters and headset. Also go through 1 full sized tower per hour. 1 fan if it's under 60. 2 over 70. I try o to ride the trainer if the garage is over 70, but that's not always possible. I've rusted titanium hardware on Super Record brakes that have never been on the trainer. There's more, but you get the idea.

I disagree with prior posters who say that a new frame won't help. My frames with full length/internal housing don't have the sticking rear brake issue. Yes I still wreck the bottom bracket and front detailers last about 2 years (with 5 bikes, that's one every 6 months...), but the brakes still work!

For your road bike, consider titanium. Also for exposed cables for rear brakes, consider running liner between the cable stops. That and teflon coated cables double the rear brake cable life.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
Start by getting a bigger fan or more fans. A 20" floor fan is maybe 4000CFM at best. To replicate even a 10mph headwind along a 3'x5' area, you need 10,000CFM. I have a 20" floor fan and I'm adding 2 wall mount fans as well to get close. You do get some mas air movement in the room, so the actual air moved is more than the rated CFM, FWIM. Point being that a ot more fans will help. Your internal thermostat is not happy with the rate of evaporation/heat removal so you sweat harder.

You might also put a dehumidifier in that room or consider a small portable AC unit you can duct outside. Anything to remove more heat and cool off the space.

You're on the cusp of my phobia: heat training.
I fall apart on hot races. And I dont want to get the room too cool.
The simulation of race day heat. Though I wonder how far this goes to start offering diminishing returns.
Melt my bike and be race ready - seize my bike up with my sweat.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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jstoveld wrote:

Living in the north east - not possible in the winter.

Sure it is.

Build up a cheap single speed for the trainer. You don't need brakes and with erg mode on the KICKR, you don't need derailleurs. Not much left to go wrong.
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
I sweat like you do. Maybe worse.

On the trainer, I use a sweat net. And a towel over the bars, shifters and headset. Also go through 1 full sized tower per hour. 1 fan if it's under 60. 2 over 70. I try o to ride the trainer if the garage is over 70, but that's not always possible. I've rusted titanium hardware on Super Record brakes that have never been on the trainer. There's more, but you get the idea.

I disagree with prior posters who say that a new frame won't help. My frames with full length/internal housing don't have the sticking rear brake issue. Yes I still wreck the bottom bracket and front detailers last about 2 years (with 5 bikes, that's one every 6 months...), but the brakes still work!

For your road bike, consider titanium. Also for exposed cables for rear brakes, consider running liner between the cable stops. That and teflon coated cables double the rear brake cable life.

Teflon you say?
I can cook eggs after T1... I like it.

But I feel your frustration. Sucks to have to go to the shop and them know just by the look on my face the sweat broke something else.

Anyone who knows the SC series intimately knows that the rear brake is notorious for this seizing issue.

So I have to ask - what are you riding these days F+S?

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
jstoveld wrote:


Living in the north east - not possible in the winter.


Sure it is.

Build up a cheap single speed for the trainer. You don't need brakes and with erg mode on the KICKR, you don't need derailleurs. Not much left to go wrong.

I have a single speed that I use as my commuter and ride every day it isn't iced over. Or snow on the ground.
Magic of living in Philly.

This year I might grab a Fat Bike or a MTB with some studded wheels incase we get snowed in again.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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jstoveld wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:
Start by getting a bigger fan or more fans. A 20" floor fan is maybe 4000CFM at best. To replicate even a 10mph headwind along a 3'x5' area, you need 10,000CFM. I have a 20" floor fan and I'm adding 2 wall mount fans as well to get close. You do get some mas air movement in the room, so the actual air moved is more than the rated CFM, FWIM. Point being that a ot more fans will help. Your internal thermostat is not happy with the rate of evaporation/heat removal so you sweat harder.

You might also put a dehumidifier in that room or consider a small portable AC unit you can duct outside. Anything to remove more heat and cool off the space.


You're on the cusp of my phobia: heat training.
I fall apart on hot races. And I dont want to get the room too cool.
The simulation of race day heat. Though I wonder how far this goes to start offering diminishing returns.
Melt my bike and be race ready - seize my bike up with my sweat.

It's counterproductive to adaptation to increase your FTP and overall fitness. There are some benefits similar to altitude training, but to do them correctly, they are very risky and involve raising your core temp to a point that could cause fatal results.

You only need heat adaptation maybe 2-3 week before a race at most. Leg fatigue or metabolic capacity should be your limiting factor, not ability to cool yourself or feeling overheated.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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Refrain from name calling -
I was dumb enough to do some of my 1hr workouts in a thick hoodie.
Lost 10lbs in an hour.
Wont do that again...

Though you did pique my interest.
Had a buddy use that training mask - how detrimental is that stuff?

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390
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Re: Guide me: Possible new bike for 2017 *Heavy Salty Sweater Edition* [jstoveld] [ In reply to ]
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would a pre-workout drink higher in sodium cause one's body to noticeably retain more water during the workout or race?
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