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Gravel Bikes..
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Ladies and trolls of slowtwitch. My triathlon days are coming to an end. I have accomplished a lot, but at some point lost the motivation to train 20 hours a week for marginal gains.

Up next is touring the country in a camper and exploring every poker room and dirt road I can find..

Talk to me about gravel bikes.. I want something reliable and bombproof. Performance and weight are non issues. I won't be racing.

http://www.nashbar.com/...0053_10052_572593_-1___ Good value? Are disc breaks that great? how bad is the road riding on 35mm tires at 45 PSI?

One problem with disc breaks, is that I can't change over with my existing stock of road wheels, right?

What do I need to know about leaving the computrainer in search of gravel roads?

Austin Hardy -

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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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If weight and performance were an issue, then the Felt F1x would be the clear winner. Crazy light frame and tire clearance for 700x40

Since weight and performance don't matter, something like a CAADX would work well. It has good tire clearance, a longer and lower geometry than most CX bikes (I think long and low like a road bike is great for gravel), it is cheap, comfortable, available with rim brakes (if you buy used) and even has mounts for a rack (if you plan on bikepacking a bit) and mounts for fenders (if you want to train in the rain on the road).

I don't think disc brakes are a must-have. I'd prefer to not have them, but most high end cx and gravel bikes have them now as standard. Like you said, they aren't compatible with the rest of the wheels you already own.

The most important thing in my opinion is that you run a good tubeless tire (panaracer gravel king at best) and a tubeless compatible rim. Tubes and gravel don't mix. The panaracers roll fantastic on the road and are comfortable on the gravel. They are also pretty cheap.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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I bought that exact bike. Pretty good value IMO. Here are my thoughts:

-Built like a tank and not really that heavy.
-Great shifting: really fantastic imo
-I like the cable routing. I've always been a fan of running cables along the top tube
-Absolutely MASSIVE clearance for tires. I have a set of Schwalbe Kojak's on there right now and the ride is super comfy :) When I wear those out I'll probably give the Schwalbe G-One or S-One tires a shot.
-Those particular disc brakes suck. They work, sure, but the modulation goes barely working, working just a touch more but still barely working, and finally I get about 80% of the stopping power I get from normal rim brakes. That said, I've ordered a pair of Avid BB7s and I hear they're amazing so I'm looking forward to that upgrade.
-Stock bars were too wide for me. YMMV
-Standover clearance isn't exactly great :/
-Toe overlap is a problem for me but, then again, my cleats are WAY back so YMMV

Overall, it's a pretty tough value to beat IMO. That said, if I were building up a bike solely for gravel races I'd take a hard look at the Niner RLT. It's a bit slacker, has a lower BB, better standover, and comes in steel if that's your thing (aluminum also available). The aluminum is cheaper and I'd probably build that up with a Cannondale Save 2 seatpost, Bontrager IsoZone bar, 105 group, Avid BB7s, and a nice set of Stans rims built on DT 350s. That would be a really nice bike for long days in the saddle.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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I also have a CAADX, which I love. I bought it with the intention of shoulder season and gravel riding, and maybe some CX in season. It's 11-speed, shifts cleaner than my road bike, and is very comfortable. I specifically was looking for disc brakes, and I am very short so my options were considerably more limited (size 44 is not in everyone's range!). I didn't get it at anything like the deal you're looking at on the Nashbar though, for what is essentially a similar spec.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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I'm out of triathlon for a variety of reasons. I'm sticking to running and biking. I'm avoiding the roads and sticking to gravel. I have a couple of 100 mile rides and a 200 mile race planned for this year on the gravel. I just got my gravel bike in last week.

This bike hasn't even touched the road or gravel yet........

Custom Titanium frame
Ultegra Di2
ENVE fork
HED wheels


Last edited by: mercuryvapor: Nov 25, 15 10:08
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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Big Turkey wrote:
Ladies and trolls of slowtwitch. My triathlon days are coming to an end. I have accomplished a lot, but at some point lost the motivation to train 20 hours a week for marginal gains.

Up next is touring the country in a camper and exploring every poker room and dirt road I can find..

Talk to me about gravel bikes.. I want something reliable and bombproof. Performance and weight are non issues. I won't be racing.

http://www.nashbar.com/...0053_10052_572593_-1___ Good value? Are disc breaks that great? how bad is the road riding on 35mm tires at 45 PSI?

One problem with disc breaks, is that I can't change over with my existing stock of road wheels, right?

What do I need to know about leaving the computrainer in search of gravel roads?

There is a difference between a gravel bike and a cyclocross bike. The difference isn't huge, but there are typically geometry differences. A CX bike is made to have snappy handling, whereas a gravel bike will have a longer more comfortable wheelbase and handle a rough road with a bit more ease.

For examples look at the Raleigh line. http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes-open-road
The Rokers and Tamlands (yes, named after weather men Al Roker and Brick Tamland), are gravel bikes. The RXC stuff is cyclocross. Both can be used interchangeably but there are differences.

Big things for me were I wanted disc brakes, I wanted mounts for paniers or fenders if I decided I needed them, and I wanted decent tire clearance so I had options. If I was buying new it probably would have been the Raleigh RXC, but the used market for CX or gravel bikes is pretty dang good, lots of bikes with very low usage on them for good prices. I ended up with the steal of a liftetime. Got a 2013 Cannondale CAADX in absolute brand new condition (guy had 10 miles on it) with disc brakes and full Ultegra for $800, it retailed new for $2,300. Awesome bike especially for the price and I have been very happy with it.

Disc brakes are relatively new to CX bikes but I prefer to have them than not. I have run some MTB trails on my CAADX, and had some steep descents to deal with in CX races, definitely appreciate having the disc brakes. Doesn't work with my other wheels, but the wheels that came on the bike are working just fine for me.

I don't agree with the previous poster about running tubeless. You can run lower pressures with tubes than tubeless in a CX situation. Tubeless at the same low pressures as tubes in CX tends to lead to burping. The real way to go is tubular for CX, but I am happy with my tube tires. I run Stans in the tubes and don't have problems with punctures.

I wouldn't buy a nashbar bike for $1k when there are so many good deals on used bikes out there, even new from a reputable manufacturer for a bit more.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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If your future travel plans include flying to a destination, you might consider a Ritchey Breakaway Cross. I have had 2 cross country trips now on Southwest, and it's flown free both times. No disk brakes, but mini-v's work fine for my use (though granted I don't ride much gravel right now).
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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I've done a fair bit of gravel riding this past year.
What I've discovered is that you don't need a specific gravel bike and big fat tires with tread.
I've been using my aero road frame with 23mm Conti 4000S (on wide rims) and standard rim brakes.
The only thing I had to upgrade were my bottle holders.
My fancy carbon ones ejected bottles on washboard sections.
I can't run much bigger tires on my road frame either because of clearance issues. A frame that could fit at least a 28mm tire with a couple mm clearance would be better.

I own a CX bike, but use the road bike for gravel...

If I had the budget and wanted a more specific bike I'd probably go with a bike with longer chainstays, more trail, and disc brakes (purely for mud/tire clearance).
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Give Grava a look. Beautiful bikes, I have heard a lot of great things about them.

http://www.gravabike.com
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [markg] [ In reply to ]
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markg wrote:
If your future travel plans include flying to a destination, you might consider a Ritchey Breakaway Cross. I have had 2 cross country trips now on Southwest, and it's flown free both times. No disk brakes, but mini-v's work fine for my use (though granted I don't ride much gravel right now).

+1 on Mini-V brakes, they work beautifully on my commuter and CX rigs, are easy to set up and cheap. Remember the industry wants us to upgrade to discs more than we actually 'need' to, that way they can sell us a whole new bike....

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [markg] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Ritchey Break-away Cross in steel, and it handles like a pig for CX and is a noodle on Gravel (56cm frame with the Ritchey WCS Pro fork).
The downtube clamp tends to loosen after off-road riding (yes. I tried all known remedies from thread-lock to pine sap).
So I am not sure if it would be a good choice for extensive Gravel riding/racing.

But it sure is a great choice for destination bike touring.

markg wrote:
If your future travel plans include flying to a destination, you might consider a Ritchey Breakaway Cross. I have had 2 cross country trips now on Southwest, and it's flown free both times. No disk brakes, but mini-v's work fine for my use (though granted I don't ride much gravel right now).
Last edited by: windschatten: Nov 25, 15 19:25
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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Mini-V's for me, plenty strong, but eat through rims like crazy, even with Kool-Stop salmons. Downside of living in the PNW.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [JesseN] [ In reply to ]
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I got about 10k out of the front wheel on my commuter bike before the rim completely delaminated - my own fault, I had ignored the warning signs that it was about to go! Fortunately it exploded about 200 metres after I had been doing 25mph..... Not recommended!

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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Consider some of the higher end Bikes Direct cross bikes. Some of the components which you may want to replace anyway are a bit heavy like bars, stem seatpost and saddle. Replace them for correct fit and not weight. Not a bad choice for an out of the box bike.

I use a Sette CX-1 that uses canti's as my gravel bike. Canti's work great 99% of the time, I'm using Avid Ultimates. Also I do like tubeless and run Stans 340 comp wheels. I've not had one burping issue in 3 years of running tubeless. I run Michelin Mud 2 tires between 30 to 40 psi depending on the type of riding I'm doing.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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Salsa is great brand that covers the gravel scene from racing (warbird) to bikepacking and everything in between. Riding gravel.com (or searching Guitar Ted Productions) will answer all your questions. I've completed and competed in three years of gravel races and ultra endurance distance races (MOP a couple of times FOP) it is great scene with super nice folks. I started thinking 100 miler would be great accomplishment and quickly progressed to 300+ racing. The bike is important. Disc brakes are the best as you get better wheels and when the mud and water is a concern the discs are better. Mud clearance is a concern. Braze ons for tons of water bottles is important. Strap on bags are used instead of racks. Real Estate on the bars becomes and issue when lights computers, cue sheets, and such are needed. Exploring dirt roads is very enjoyable on my 29er Ti El Mar with rigid carbon front fork. Racing is fastest for me on my Ti Vaya. Might use my El Mar at Trans Iowa this coming April. Gravel is the way to go! Good luck!
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting...what year is your Breakaway Cross? The 2012 and late models have a larger downtube than the older models. Mine is a 60 cm steel, and I don't get the "noodle" feel, and I am definitely not a lightweight. I haven't had clamp issues, either, and neither has this guy when I was talking to him prior to making my purchase. His is a 58 cm and has had LOTS of build-up/teardowns. I wonder if the larger clamp helps in that regard.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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There is a difference between a gravel bike and a cyclocross bike. The difference isn't huge, but there are typically geometry differences. A CX bike is made to have snappy handling, whereas a gravel bike will have a longer more comfortable wheelbase and handle a rough road with a bit more ease.

For examples look at the Raleigh line. http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes-open-road
The Rokers and Tamlands


Yes. I test road and reviewed (below) the Raleigh Tamland and while the bike is heavy, and as you said, not that "snappy" - at speed, on gravel, it's a bit of a marvel. Keeps tracking straight and true and inspires confidence when you hit loose gravel and washboard at speed, that on a CX bike or even a road bike that is being pushed to it's limits, you might need to back off a bit.

http://stevefleck.blogspot.ca/...road-less-taken.html


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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huge +1 to the caadx.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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Here's my gravel bike. Salsa Ti vaya:


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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Lederman] [ In reply to ]
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Just ordered a niner rlt. Looked at tamland, gt grade, jam is and best bang for buck and reviews I found was niner.

---------
Specialized Shiv
Scott Addict
Niner Jet 9
Niner RLT
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Lederman] [ In reply to ]
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If you have the means I would give Eriksen, Moots, Firefly or Hampsten a call and get a Ti gravel grinder. Ti is the perfect material for gravel. It laughs at rock chips and after 10 years and a quick touch up will look and ride like you bought it yesterday. We are at a junction in development right now so be careful what you pick. With the discs out there now and as good as they are, that is sort of a no brainer. You can always change the brakes out in a few years if something better develops. The big deal right now is rear spacing seems to be moving wider on mtb, cx and gravel bikes and quick release wheels are being replaced. with the thru the hub system. You also have to decide on mtb or road bars.

I personally like two front chainrings, but lots of folks are going 1 x 11 with a pie plate cog in back. Tubeless vs tubed tires is still a debate with tubeless seeming to be here to stay. I don't have tubeless on my gravel bike (yet) but I may in 2016. Tire size is another big consideration. I can ride up to 45 mm width on my Gravel bike but usually use around 38s. Depends on what your riding roads look like, but I find the 45 a bit clunky when the going gets smooth. Caveat I am an old man and like my granny gear and don't ride the Gravel bike on roads/trails that would be better suited for an mtb.

My other word of advice is to know how to trouble shoot all the systems on your bike. Depending how remote you are, an old school bike with V-brakes and tubed tires can be the difference between walking out and having the skills in fixing what you have. I have seen mtb riders way the hell out there and gone that didn't have the skill or tools to get a tube into a failed tubeless tire, change out or have pads for a failed disc brake, or have blown shocks that even after they got back to town had to wait a week or so to get their bike back from the shop as parts were not in stock. Sometimes simple is pretty good. My Gravel bike is a cross bike with Paul Minimotos, tubes or setups, a 34 small ring and a 32 large cog. I find if I can't get that up a hill, I probably am just as well off walking.

I don't think there are any wrong answers out there, but lots of choices for you to make.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [Big Turkey] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a Salsa Fargo from Bilenky's a few years ago. I bought the full heavy steel and had them put S&S couplers on it. It fits in an airline legal 26"x26"x 10" box, in which it arrived. I LOVE that thing. It weighs a ton but the RaceKings that came on it roll really well, so lose very little on the flats. Those tires work great for anything short of super loose sand or mud. My mechanic (a 50 something former racer who has been in the business for years) looked at it because it was making a noise and couldn't believe how well it rode. (It turns out it was from the Thudbuster that came on it and not the bike itself)

Mine can mount 2 bottles on the frame and 2 on the fork.

BTW, you can get it in Ti (which also allows the couplers) and now they have a carbon fork.

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: Gravel Bikes.. [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
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I applaud your switch; hope you tried it as not everyone likes mixed surface rides. For background, was a racing road cyclist post college, did some triathlons, then raced cyclocross and now just fun and club riding.

After racing cross for some years and doing some larger gravel events, here are my observations:

1) If you care about leveraging your old wheels, you can get a new or closeout canti frame very inexpensively that is still a great frame. I have a full carbon, Redline cross frame that has canti's and the brakes were fine for cross. I got TRP mini vs and they are a big improvement. They work well. So, if bound by budget, not a bad way to go.


2) If you plan to invest new (or can divest your older wheels), I'd get disc brakes and gravel geometry no questions about it. Lower BB, longer chain stays, slightly slacker seat tube than a typical cross frame. You want stability in washed out down hills.

I have used my Redline for some gravel events that had decent single track and it worked great, but I'd get discs if I was starting out now.

3) Tires, tire selection, and tire size rules. If you do plan to be on dirt for a bit of your rides (and less road with occasional short dirt sections) I recommend looking for a frame that fits 40s; I'd settle for 35s as the absolute minimum but anything smaller is not good for extended off road rides. For example. for SoCal, I love the Challenge Gravel Grinders (38s) that have a file tread and side knobs which works well for our terrain with hard pack and sandy sections. They also roll well on pavement. If I lived somewhere else, I'd likely choose different tires.

I agree on tubeless benefits as stated by others, I'd absolutely go that way.

I like the concept of the new Cannonade Slate as it is "All Road" with a front suspension. With mixed use riding, might be worth a look. The abuse on your hands and shoulders is a concern which is why larger tires and tubeless is also nice.

The Ridley x Trail is also interesting compared to the usual suspects already mentioned.

Enjoy your new adventuring!

J
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