Goals for a first time ITT participant

Feb 7, 18 5:52

Post #1 of 30 (5011 views)

All, I’m attempting 10 mile time trial this year. There’s more to the craft than watts, like your position, setup, and the like.

For a first-timer Cat 5, what should be a good goal either time or speed wise? I mean, sure, how long is a piece of string? I have no idea. I don’t trust something like an online calculator.

But, seriously. If you know a little basic info, but what would be a good tangible goal instead of just finishing with my head down and hitting a wattage goal? This would be using an aero roadie with clip ons, a good TT helmet, skinsuit, and 50mm wheels with TT tires/tubes.

Right now, I can hit about 270w for the race length in TT position, so far. I can do more in my road position, so I need more time in TT position.

My first instinct was to say shoot for 24min and or 25mph by year end.

Lastly, at first I was a bit scared of perhaps training in the TT helmet, not due to looks, but hearing ability on road. But, if I want to hone position in the real world against a real goal, I need to follow the military or sports approach of: train how you will be fighting/competing.

I feel like right now, the endpoint is too “mushy” and isn’t tangible enough. I’d feel better fighting towards a time/speed.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 5:59

Post #2 of 30 (5000 views)

Set a goal power, not speed. At a 10 mile TT I would shoot at 105% ftp.

NO

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 6:00

Post #3 of 30 (4997 views)

ALL.

OUT.

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Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 6:05

Post #4 of 30 (4991 views)

ericMPro wrote:

ALL.

OUT.

Yep. Launch from the line. Like Zwift.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 6:12

Post #5 of 30 (4974 views)

While you will generally be shooting for a steady power output over the course of the TT, it does not feel that way, particularity in a short race where you are likely over your FTP. Hard steady state efforts done right actually end up feeling like they are getting harder as the race goes on. This is what leads people to get in trouble as the tendency is go too hard at the beginning then slow down. So you have to use some mental tricks. I find the pacing strategy here http://www.trainingbible.com/...me-trial-pacing.html to work really well. Divide the race up into quarters and focus on a specific thing in each quarter.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 6:14

Post #6 of 30 (4973 views)

http://flammerouge.je/...heets/doittstrat.htm

Your welcome:)

Don

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 7:41

Post #7 of 30 (4903 views)

Set measurable, attainable process goals:

1. Proper fueling and hydration in the 24h prior.
2. Proper warmup, timed correctly.
3. Good start, don't start too hard.
4. As close to optimal pacing as you can manage (optimal pacing varies depending on the course).
5. Maximize your effort, leave no energy out on the course.
6. Hold the most momentum you can through corners & other obstacles.
7. Hold the best aero position you can for the duration that's important.

If you do these things, your result will be "correct".

Speed & time are dependent on more then your power & aerodynamics, they can also vary based on the weather conditions of the day, the road surface, and the terrain. They are variables you can't control, your focus should be on the parts of the process that you can control.

Last edited by: vjohn: Feb 7, 18 7:50

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 7:50

Post #8 of 30 (4886 views)

It will probably take a few of these to dial the dosing of the effort in just right.

The numbers will help you get that, but ounce out on the road at full-effort, it's a bit of a different game.

They say you have executed perfectly when you reach the finish line and you honestly could not have turned another pedal stroke!

These are actually training GOLD for triathletes even those focusing on the longer races like IM. Done right, it pushes all the key fitness buttons.

You can also test out aero equipment and set-ups in the real-world and see what works.

When I was racing seriously years ago, and at my best, I would do one of these local cycling club 10 mile ITT's every week or every other week. I recall I recorded my absolute best time over 10 miles, a few weeks out from the time, I rode, probably my best ever IM 112 mile bike split! :)

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 8:02

Post #9 of 30 (4869 views)

I appreciate the input. It does make sense that if it's just speed, there's wind and things you can't control.

I like the pacing link above. That's quite nice.

I assume you're supposed to spend a bit more power where the course will make you slower. Like, if outbound is downwind and inbound is upwind. If it's a circuit, almost like doing 2min under/over workouts on the out/back per lap.

Does anyone use your KJ accumulation to help pacing?

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 8:16

Post #10 of 30 (4852 views)

burnthesheep wrote:

I assume you're supposed to spend a bit more power where the course will make you slower. Like, if outbound is downwind and inbound is upwind. If it's a circuit, almost like doing 2min under/over workouts on the out/back per lap.

Yes, that's a correct general statement. The details of doing it depend of course on the terrain and conditions. Lots of discussion on this forum in the past on this topic.

Quote:

Does anyone use your KJ accumulation to help pacing?

Not that I'm aware of. Most people look at power (smoothed by anywhere from 3-30s), or HR.

My opinion (I'm a cycling coach that does a lot of TTs and coaches athletes who do a lot of TTs) is that you really only need to look at power for the first few minutes, to avoid starting too hard, after that you go by PE. Practice this, then analyze how you did pacing-wise after the fact with a review of the file, and continue to get better at it. Staring at your head unit for the whole event rarely results in the best result, or the most enjoyable experience. Think about what you really need to be able to see at a glance when you set up the screens of your head unit as well.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [trail] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 8:20

Post #11 of 30 (4842 views)

trail wrote:

ericMPro wrote:

ALL.

OUT.

Yep. Launch from the line. Like Zwift.

That is not the best strategy for TTs longer than 1k.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 8:25

Post #12 of 30 (4827 views)

For a 10 the goal should be to PLF without blowing up (keeping a narrow powerband of +/-10% should help). As for ET/average speed, tough to say what's decent without knowing the course. Could be 20 minutes, could be 25, either way you're better off concentrating on your shrug than speed.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 8:31

Post #13 of 30 (4808 views)

This.

I rode fastest 10-mile and 40k ITTs when PM wasn't working and relied on feel. That requires knowing yourself, which comes with experience and not just relying on a number.

And I also wouldn't worry too much about over-thinking first ITT. Go out and do it, feel what's happening and gain knowledge for next time.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 9:13

Post #14 of 30 (4766 views)

Also this.

My best ‘training’ 10 came when the PM decided to auto zero, so I had no idea what power i was doing.

After the first 20s or so calm right down. It’s so easy to cook fresh legs.

The variation for gradient/wind isn’t as great as some make out. If normalised power is close to average then that’s a good start.

My advice to the OP would be to just turn up to the first one. Record power, but perhaps just have speed time distance on display.

Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 10:14

Post #15 of 30 (4722 views)

This may be a bit basic but if you are new to TTs it is worth pointing out just in case. When you get your start time, they mean it. You will start at that time down to the second and if you are late that goes against your time or, if you are late enough, they won't let you start.

So, add the clock/time of day field to your garmin so you know what time it is during your warm up and ride to the line. Actually, for any race I am doing I have a page with fields I will use during my warmup and the clock is always on there.

At some point in your warm up you are going to inevitably start doing loops near the start line. Get a time on them so you always know how many minutes you are away from the line. You can wing it but that gets stressful so paying attention to the clock makes things calmer.

Last edited by: STP: Feb 7, 18 10:16

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 10:35

Post #16 of 30 (4690 views)

vjohn wrote:

My opinion (I'm a cycling coach that does a lot of TTs and coaches athletes who do a lot of TTs) is that you really only need to look at power for the first few minutes, to avoid starting too hard, after that you go by PE. Practice this, then analyze how you did pacing-wise after the fact with a review of the file.

Good call. I should definitely be doing this in training especially, because the 10 mile loop segment I created one needs to be focusing on the road and not the computer the whole time. Lest you get a cross wind when not paying attention and end up too far into the road or into a mailbox.

I should probably start doing this loop weekly. Once if a hard workout and twice if just some SS intervals. Perfect place to do some 2x20min.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 10:51

Post #17 of 30 (4676 views)

vjohn wrote:

My opinion (I'm a cycling coach that does a lot of TTs and coaches athletes who do a lot of TTs) is that you really only need to look at power for the first few minutes, to avoid starting too hard, after that you go by PE. Practice this, then analyze how you did pacing-wise after the fact with a review of the file, and continue to get better at it. Staring at your head unit for the whole event rarely results in the best result, or the most enjoyable experience. Think about what you really need to be able to see at a glance when you set up the screens of your head unit as well.

I agree with this in general. The first 45 seconds of a TT are important to manage because 130% of FTP is going to feel pretty easy with the adrenaline going. It's okay to spike your power a bit to get up to speed...maybe the first 10 seconds or so, but after that you should really focus on getting the power back down into your goal range.

After that, I just periodically check in on power. Assuming there are not constant grade changes, or pockets where the wind picks up or dies down, I'm usually not shifting gears or changing my cadence too much, which means it's pretty easy to maintain power without actually looking down at it. If there is a hill coming up, I'll again do another spot check to make sure that I am putting down more power on the uphill, but not going crazy.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 11:46

Post #18 of 30 (4643 views)

I’ve done around 108-109% in a local TT, which puts me right around 20 minutes. That may be pushing it a bit if it’s your first, though.

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Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 12:29

Post #19 of 30 (4583 views)

natethomas wrote:

I’ve done around 108-109% in a local TT, which puts me right around 20 minutes. That may be pushing it a bit if it’s your first, though.

I'm used to over/under work that gets into the 12min range per set later in my roadie training in that similar % power range. They suck, but I do it. Not gonna lie, some of the workouts in the roadie plan has the mind go to some dark places to finish some sets. "Visualize eating an entire pizza as a reward...or...donut!!!!"........ but then you never eat it because w/kg.

I just need to get to doing them in the TT position to minimize the loss between the two positions.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 14:24

Post #20 of 30 (4532 views)

In my experience with 10mi TTs and being a long course triathlete, I very rarely "trained" that wattage in the aerobars. Not to say that's a good thing, necessarily, but it's "just" 20-25 minutes.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

FindinFreestyle

Feb 7, 18 16:33

Post #21 of 30 (4480 views)

Time trialing is a math problem, and the start is the trickiest part. You've got to balance getting up to speed quickly without going deeply anaerobic. Most riders lean too far towards the getting up to speed side of the equation. It should take :30 - :45 to reach cruising speed. If you've got 1200 watts of :10 power, you've got like 3 pedals strokes at the start of a tt at 800-1000 watts, and then you immediately start turning it down. But definitely use those 3-5 pedal strokes, because going single digit mph is bad for your average speed. Too many rider stay at sprint intensity and then 110-120% for a couple minutes, and then they limp home at 90% or less. Even for a 10 miler, the first few minutes need have a semblance of comfort.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 16:46

Post #22 of 30 (4468 views)

some good advice here already, I like the idea of breaking it up into quarters. personally I do a 20km TT once a month during the season and because of the course (4.1 mile loop) I break my TT into thirds. One other thing I do is that I reset my computer hitting the lap button after the first 20 seconds. I conservatively get up to speed but I don't want that jump in watts to influence the average watts for that first lap. If you don't lap it out then you have a high watt start and then could go too low to get the average back in line and then have to pick it up to stay on your average for the first lap. Then once you lock into that effort for the first lap you don't have to look at the numbers as much as someone above recommended.
Another little tip, for the start if you know that you have one leg stronger then the other, start with your weaker leg at the 2 o'clock position so that leg is your initial pedal stroke. This allows your stronger leg to get the first complete pedal stroke.

Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
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Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 17:21

Post #23 of 30 (4455 views)

Regarding pacing, my experience is 'go hard when it is hard' i.e. uphill and into a head wind. Don't fall into the trap of cranking up the watts when riding with a tail wind or downhill, use this time to rest (a little).

Everyone is different, but I've also found riding a negative split produces good times as well.

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 7, 18 18:19

Post #24 of 30 (4432 views)

Some solid advice given on this thread. My favourite advice for doing TTs were the 3 rules:

1) don’t go out too fast
2) don’t go out too fast
3) see 1) and 2)

My fastest TT ever my power meter wasn’t functioning so relied on HR and PE. I emptied the tank, and although thrilled with the result, my legs were so baked I could barely get in the car post-event. Last year the power meter was functioning, but I was unable to duplicate the result I had obtained using PE.
Also, as noted above, if one leg of the event is a headwind, best you bury yourself there, as biggest time gains will be had, vs the easy tailwind section where minimal time gains are made as everyone is going fast

Last edited by: drougr: Feb 7, 18 18:25

Re: Goals for a first time ITT participant [drougr] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 18 7:29

Post #25 of 30 (4352 views)

Thanks so much everyone.

The math even proves the headwind/uphill effort vs. downhill/downwind. Spending less time going slower saves more time than trying to go marginally faster in the faster part.

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