That was nearly too easy.

For every person saying, "well I was interested two years ago" there's a handful of people who are interested NOW. Triathlon is only growing (currently) it's not like they're coming into a dying market and just introducing a product that is a piece of technology on the way out. There's a HUGE demand for power meters, they are bringing something new to the table, I venture to say, the product will do well and many of you all will hop on board.

Internet critics though as per usual.

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The Home of Advanced Running
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I agree. I have a Quarq on my TT bike and am happy with it but my road bike has a PT hub. I'd love to upgrade to a different gear (mid compact) and add some Flo 30's to it but I don't want to give up my power. So...perhaps Vector it is.

Of course. Why? I use Windows 7 and Office 2003. Actually, I was happy with an earlier version of Office. Very reliable for me.

i have the 310xt, 500, 210.

all work flawlessly and have recorded many many miles, have been through mud, sand, water and had no issues. i think their product is good quality.

regarding the pedals though at first it was supposed to undercut quark now with 1700 a pop uhm i think i will just go with stages.

I'm not sure that's the US price. It might be Australian. Let's wait for the official Garmin announcement.

I went with Stages so I could easily swap from bike to bike (all have 175mm Shimano crank).

BUT if I want a new bike with a different BB standard, I'm out of luck. I can't look at a Shimano or Cervelo because of the BB standard not working with my crank (may be able to use an adaptor).

Pedals seem a lot more "future proof". That said, I'm not sure it would be any faster to move two pedals than it is to move the left Shimano crank arm.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I'm waiting to see them and hear the reviews. I'm not in any rush so can continue to wait awhile. As I have a Computrainer, I get power from that for training but what I'm missing is to know how much power I'm putting out on the road so that I can "ride by power". Add to that multiple bikes and multiple wheels and a pedal based system sounds really great. But, time will tell.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

Oh and where is my HUD in my Goggles for swimming. I want to have a display that paints a big yellow band (via the HUD) on the bottom of the lake so I don't run into the paddle boarder (again). And I'd like it to give me my pace along with a course map and where my buddies (who have the same unit) are.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

It seems odd that they're entering mass production, yet the Garmin team doesn't appear to be using them. Perhaps the execs on the call have a more liberal definition of 'entering mass production' than I'm used to.

My mistake. That was alexaqui ... I guess I conflated your posts in my mind while I was replying. (Sorry)


You said



Since the Vector hasn't been released, this isn't evidence that Garmin products have durability and quality issues. It's evidence that an unreleased product did, and that that is why is remained unreleased. Essentially, it's arguing that Garmin are striving for decent QC.


And maybe that's the reason. Although I still think that even going so far as saying that

is overstepping the mark slightly. (I agree that Garmin don't have perfect QC, but I think it's decent and they honour their warranties. They're certainly above average in their niche, IMO.)




Anyway, I'm actually pretty excited to see these come to market. The question is whether to buy the Quarq Elsa BB30 now and the Vector later (I have mixed BB standards across my race bikes), or whether to hold off. Something tells me there will always be a good used market for Elsa cranksets, even once Vector is out (and hopefully proven).

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

Yes, I did say they have no credibility, because every one of their products I have owned has bit an unfortunate and early end at some point. This forum is loaded with people who are looking to upgrade because their previous watch has died. How about their HR monitor straps (the soft ones)? We have discussions about how to get around those problems using polar straps. As to the original response to me, I'm glad you are okay with your Garmin 500 flying off of your bike multiple times. My mount snapped (Garmin had to redesign the mount because the first design would break) and launched my 705 through the air. Yep, $150 down the drain for a repair. My FR60 bit the bullet after 14 months of light use. The footpod died after 9 months. The HR strap also died before the watch did. In contrast, my Polar equipment from the late 90's STILL works. I use my old HRM straps with my computrainer and they surprisingly still work.

That's my perspective and after seeing countless threads start out with "My Garmin XXX watch died and I need a new one..."

I still use my 705. It's fine. I am super hesitant to buy anything from Garmin given my past experiences.

That is a pretty hefty price tag for something that is unproven. I will stick with my quarqs.

My Edge 500 hasn't flown off the mount multiple times. That was Creatre's reply to you.
Yes, the old mounts were prone to the pin eventually snapping - hence the re-design which is a great mount system (I've only ever crashed with it on the MTB and haven't lost it there).

And yeah, the Garmin soft strap is kinda notorious for dying (though I've been fairly lucky there). But the electronics (it's the straps, not the transmitters) are typically solid. All the threads? Well, people who don't have a problem don't generally write about it on a forum. Those who do will often write about it more than once.

I'm hesitant to buy it because it's a brand-new, high price item that's untested. Really though, I'm hesitant on anything that costs more than one day's pay. I actually trust Garmin to have done a decent job and ironed out any major issues before launching.

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

Fair enough. I freely concede that I have selection bias. I own or have owned a lot of Garmin products and have had to warranty most of them, and most of my friends who use them have had to send theirs back as well. I don't ship a lot of packages, so it seems to me that any time I'm at the post office it's to send something to Olathe KS (garmin repair center).

As a result of the issues I've had, I've spent a lot more time on the Garmin support forums, which via selection bias are full of other people who are having issues. I've also spent a fair amount of time on the various threads on these forums for various Garmin issues, which again are chock full of other people having similar issues. Similar for other forums.

Based on these experiences alone it is indeed not accurate to conclude that Garmin has a "very high" failure rate, because that's just not an objective quantifiable statement. However, the Timex Global Trainer aside (which I have no experience with), I have a very solid hunch that if you actually did a study of Garmin sport product failure rates they would certainly exceed industry standards for consumer electronics as a whole. I'd bet by quite a margin, but perhaps that's not entirely fair since we're talking about sports products which see harder use than consumer electronics as a whole.

Now this entire tangent aside, I by no means want to see the Vector fail. I would love it to succeed and definitely would consider buying one in the future. However, others can call it pessimism, but there is plenty of objective cause for skepticism in any and all promises of an impending release date of the Vector at this point, we've literally been hearing promises of release for years. The concerns about reliability are very legitimate in my experience with Garmin products, which coupled with my own situation of already owning a capable power meter make it quite simple to wait out the initial offering, see how well it is received and holds up for the first 6mo-year and then reevaluate purchasing one.

Even with this being ST, land of "data is king", I'd still be comfortable making statements like that based on my experiences and reading. Not like posting here is a news outlet and studies must be cited to make a statement.

Like, the Swimsense is a hunk of junk.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Funny you should mention the Swimsense. I had that too... and yep, it died about a year in. After that I got the Garmin swim... which died almost immediately and was warrantied. My second one is hanging in there though at least.

My Swimsense lasted three months. So did the warranty replacement. Then I gave up.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Hugh, same here. I have a 305 & it has been tossed, submerged in water, kicked & dropped so many times...still run great. Had a few issues about 2 years ago with the buttons not working but it seemed to have fixed itself.

fwiw imo my garmin 500 is one of the best bits of kit i have - prior to this no device did whaf i wanted.

i'd buy the pedals - but i'd be nervous about buying the first iteration of them.

"Something is future proofed? Quick, introduce a new pedal axle standard to f*ck this up!" - Every big bike company right now.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

I agree that they have some pretty bad QC issues, but I'd also have to commend them on their customer support. I know, I know... let me get my flame suit on first. In my experiences, they have been quick to replace products, even giving me a handful of out-of-warranty courtesy replacements when I had just passed the warranty mark by a handful of days. With that said, I'd rather them invest more in their R&D and QC to ensure the products that are released to market never have to go back to Kansas. I hate having that feeling that I'm a beta tester whenever purchasing a new Garmin product. Have been on the fence about getting a 910xt, but firmware issues noted around the web has made me reluctant. It's also interesting to see that the 810 and 510 are merely incremental upgrades to the 800 and 500 respectively. Maybe Garmin started to realize that they shouldn't overreach during product releases. I guess the silver lining with the Vector is that since it's taken a bajillion years to come to market (and I'll still consider it vaporware until it's on the shelves in my LBS), they may have reversed their normal practices and have actually created a robust product that won't have too many issues upon release.



But I'm still looking to pick up an Elsa or a Riken.

x2

welcome to yesterday...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Just FYI, I said it's fallen off my bike multiple times, but I never mentioned it was because of the mount system. I've never had it come disengaged from the mount. It's only gone flying when I've tested a self made makeshift mount for my TT bike and my own stupidity trying to get it out of my jersey pocket. Either way it's solid.

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Its only "yesterday"'s technology if there is a better, more competitive product. For ME, there is no better theoretical solution out on the market right now:
Polar Pedals =
1) cant get power data on a GPS unit
2) more expensive
3) PITA to calibrate and switch between bikes.

Quarq/SRM =
1) I have a proprietary crank on my TT bike, therefore no option for crank based power (and it is the stiffest crank ever made, so I am not planning on giving that up)
2) ...But even if I DID have the option of switching cranks, I have a standard setup on the TT bike and a compact on one of my road bikes - I'd like to not have to buy multple power meters or have to switch my chainrings in addition to switching cranks - that would suck.

Stages =
1) every issue with Quarq
2) accuracy is lower on the stages

Power tap =
1) unless I buy 2 wheels, I am stuck with one wheel for both training and racing / tris and road races (no disc allowed in a road race you know). Therefore if I want to race with power in triathlon with a disc, I need a fumble with a wheel cover (1+hr) and have to live with lower aero benefit and lower quality bearings than my super-9 has.
2) If I want to train with power and race with a real disc, I have to forgo the race power and switch to cork brake pads (not a big deal, but still a pain)
3) My tri bike looks stoopid with an alloy training wheel on the back and an 808 on the front.

So the Vectors are not "Yesterday's Technology" because there is nothing like it that exists right now. The one caveat to my perspective is that these benefits are in theory. Obviously the performance and durability of the actual product will determine whether its worth the $1500 price tag. Speaking of which, I haven't seen anything about pricing other than the Garmin website which says $1500. The $1699 figure is from a guy who appears to be trying to take advantage of his anticipated short supply/pre-order buzz and make an extra $199 at the cost of consumers. [Edit: Based on the post following this one, I may stand corrected here. The $1500 reference is no longer on the Garmin website, but I have not seen anything official that says $1699 is the MSRP]

Those are my reasons for being excited for the last 3 years and still being excited today ...

PS - In my family I we have two 4 year old FR405's and a 910xt and all three have functioned well - somebody said it, no one starts threads about garmins that work the way they are supposed to (which is the vast majority), only threads about problems. I have also heard that Garmin is pretty great when it comes to replacing broken product. And for gods sake, we are kicking the crap out of these units, you have to expect some failure some of the time.
I think I am going to go start a thread that says I love my garmin so we have an offset to all of these people who post about problems.

My $0.02

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- Pete

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Luckily my over eating disorder is offset by my over exercising disorder