Sounds like the same business model as SRAM: Make a light but flimsy shit product, replace with no questions asked when it breaks, and people rave about your customer service for something that should not have broken in the first place.

First garmin breaks -> reburb unit -> refurb unit that didn't work out of the box -> new garmin. Great except for the part where I lost 2 weeks of data to shipping of units and the fact that somehow a broken unit made it into my hands to replace a broken unit.

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Jordan Oroshiba --- Roadie invading Triathlete space for knowledge access

Really? I have not had one SRAM product break in the 6 years I've owned my SRAM Red gruppo. Although I'm just say'n...it could happen any moment, you never know. I have had Shitmano rear deraileurs break on me as well as multiple bar end shifters.

I'd go knock on wood.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I'm hit or miss with Garmin. My Edge 500 has been through 5 years of war. Rain, dropping off car roof. 40,000+ miles. Works flawlessly. And it's a classic "perfect" product. Not compelled in the slightest by the 510 or 520.

But my Forerunner 610 has been an absolute shitstorm. Charging and uploading data are a non-stop drama. Requires periodic "factory reset." I should have done the refurb, but threw in the towel and got a TomTom, which has good reviews from DCRainmaker.

You reached a "gifter" rep. They will ship you a part to get you off the phone quickly.

There's also the "do this and call us back" reps, where "this" is known to be completely ineffective. They are hoping when you inevitably call back you'll get a different rep.

Then there's reps who truly want to help. They get fired because their calls take longer and they don't handle as many calls per day as everyone else.

I've been pretty lucky with Garmin. I had a Forerunner 205 that worked for about five years. I replaced it because the battery on the 205 would only hold a charge for about three hours and it was cheaper to buy the a 310XT. Twice I've had glitches with my 310XT. Both times I phoned their customer service number and I was connected with a person in less than one minute. The first time they sent me a new ANT stick for no charge and it got here in two days. The second time they managed to talk me through the steps needed to get the 310XT up and running again. (Turned out to be a problem with Garmin Express.) I'm still amazed that they can build a wristwatch sized device that is accurate and pretty reliable, and it only costs $160.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

That makes sense, however given my history with owning a Garmin, I don't need anybody to trouble shoot it. I probable know more about the device than customer service. If I'm calling it's because it's dead. Maybe it was just the way I phrased it: Send me new one.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I've been a SRAM athlete for almost eight years. In that time, riding somewhere between 8-10,000 miles a year, I've had two problems. One was the recall in 2008/9 on SRAM Force DoubleTap for the carbon shift lever breaking - mine broke. And the other was I had a prototype of the 11spd R2C shifters where the gearing stripped.

That's it. I rode Shimano prior to that, just because it was what came with the bikes I was given, and I had equally minimal problems. I briefly had a Campy Chorus groupset that was also quite trouble free.

In my experience and in training with lots of other athletes, the overwhelming difference seems to be who takes care of their equipment and who doesn't. The athletes that take care of their stuff don't have things break. Those who don't take care of their equipment do have stuff break. That's the ONLY consistency I've seen.

Shimano, SRAM, and Campy all make stuff that is extremely durable and functional. When I talk to mechanic friends, this is the same thing they say. The parts are great. People taking basic care of them... less so.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I always wonder about stories like this, i.e. frequent Garmin failures. I've been using various Garmin products since I got into the sport in 2006 and have yet to replace a unit due to a failure that wasn't my own doing. I did break one 310 but it was my fault for leaving it on my trunk and driving off. I also lost an Edge 500 when it sheared off my bars in a crash during a nighttime mountain bike ride. Alcohol was involved.

I'm currently using the 910 that was bought within a month or so of release and haven't had any issues. I'm also into year 2.5 or so of my replacement Edge 500 - again without any issues.

Rapp, totally agree 100%. I do take care of my bike quite well from a maintenance standpoint. 2 sets of tires & chains on a yearly basis, as well as shift & brake cable/housing replacement. Haven't had to replace the cogs or chainwheel yet due to the frequency of said maintenance. Saves $$ in the long run by not wearing out gear due to laziness. Some quote time issues to avoid maintenance, but if you have to I think a quick soaping & hose-off & oiling does wonders. Of course, changing some of the above mentioned can be done by a shop or home mechanic very quickly, even at a reasonable price. If you can afford a $3000+ machine you likely won't have an issue taking care of basic care for your steed.

On the R2C shifters, they have a "rebuild kit" that is $20-25 in case the insides wear out. Much cheaper than buying new $250-300 shifters. I think mine are getting close to wearing out--but haven't failed yet. Very easy to shift with an easy single finger downward press. Still works though!

garmin products that are well maintained and serviced do crash & burn from time to time.

Please let me know how cleaning your bike is going to affect whether or not a crank arm breaks. I'd love a physical explanation.

Taking care of you equipment is more than cleaning it. How you install it, store it and treat it are all important. Paying attention to the little things prevents them from becoming a bigger problem. Yes, sometimes a manufacturer pushes the limits of strength in an effort to reduce weight. But Rapp is right, folks who do a poor job of taking care of their gear have a higher failure rate.

Breaking a crank arm is a unusual thing, so I would something unusual would have to happen to cause it. Something like a wreck, a fall from improper storage, improper installation, or an inconsistency in the manufacturing process, etc. I assume you knew that though and are just jerking Rapp's chain.

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Suffer Well.

I realize you thought you were asking a rhetorical question, but the simple answer is that if you regularly clean your equipment, you tend to notice small cracks, discoloration, loose bolts, etc, etc.

I spent six summers working for a vintage and historic auto racing shop. One of the most important things we did before a race was to put a wrench on every single bolt on the car and to mark it with a wax crayon to indicate it had been checked. This also served as the visual inspection of the car, because you basically have to look everywhere to make sure you get every bolt.

Now, that doesn't necessarily fix every problem. As I said, I've had two failures of SRAM parts myself, neither of which had any visual indicators. So, as always, "shit happens." But it's amazing how much LESS shit happens when you do some basic maintenance.

DC Rainmaker said it best during a thread where some folks were complaining about the accuracy problems of some Garmin watch. "If you go on the internet and type in '[insert GPS product name] failure' you will get tons of hits."

Things break. Sometimes without warning. But in my experience, the vast majority of "JRA" failures are preventable with some basic TLC.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I got one of those third types of reps when I called a few days ago to ask why I had been unable to update the FTP numbers in my Edge 500 for the past three weeks. He asked me what version of Express I was using. I told him. He said, "Yep, that's the problem. There have been seven or eight updates to Express since you installed it." I said "Wow. I feel stupid. How do I know when I should update Express, so this doesn't happen again?" He said, "There is no way of knowing. You have to be omniscient. I've handled several calls from people with this same issue. Unless you want to go through the installation process once a week, you just have to wait until you encounter problems, then try to install the latest version. Or you can just call us, and we'll walk you through it." Then he proceeded to stay on the phone with me as I tried to install the latest version of Express; watched the installation crash; had him tell me "yeah, you're the fourth person that's happened to who I've spoken with in the past two days;" had him give me a workaround, which had to be tried three times before it worked; waited while he talked to one of his colleagues, who fixed something on the back end in Connect that I couldn't have fixed on my own and which was also preventing me from updating my FTP; and after about an hour, I finally had updated Express software and an updated FTP in my Edge 500. The unit itself has worked flawlessly for me since I got in in 2012, just as my 910XT has, but their software give me fits.

I went through 7 910's and after the 3rd I would call with all of the information I knew they would ask for from the specs screen etc. Would give it all right away say charge my card and send a new one and it would be about the same 5 or so minutes. I am not on my second 920 and it was about as easy, every time one breaks I get very upset then they take care of me and never fight it so I get over it quick however like others have said I do with they would not break...

If you whine enough they will give you a prepaid label to send your old one back I found that out on about the 5th return.

Wow! Makes me glad I still have my old 305. The thing is an endurance beast. It has survived miles and miles of bike (including one serious crash where it scraped the road pretty good) and run and its still going strong! I also have a Garmin swim watch that has been great so far.

Guess I should have mentioned that my issues were all strictly the elevation problem nothing more ever.

1 week shy of the one year coverage my 910 stop working properly...call lasted 5 min max, shipped me a refurb, that one lasted 2 weeks, similar issues-they covered all shipping on that one...#3 has been good for the last month-fingers crossed...all of my calls have been fine, short and they were fine to deal with...I did give the cc#s so I could get the replacement asap, but the credited me back right away.

The one they sent me just died too. I'm trying to find my emails to figure out how many 910xt they've sent me since I bought the first one. I've honestly lost count. Between their crappy quality and Garmin Express, it's amazing they are still in business.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I read this thread and must be the lucking person. Right next to me is my Edge 500 going on 3 years strong no issues, and my forerunner 205 going on 5 years no issues. And all my calls with Garmin have never exceeded 15 minutes.

Guess I won the Garmin lottery.

I chuckled. I called Garmin and got a "do this and call us back" rep in troubleshooting my garmin vector only recording right side data. Today I called back in after having done what I was told a few months ago and still am seeing the problem once a month. The rep I spoke to offered me a free upgrade kit for the vector to see if that would solve my problems. they admitted that it might not help since it sounds like my issue (i gave a very descriptive list of events) seemed to be with the spindle and not the pedal pod.

I'm not sure how many Garmin units I have had over the years. 5,6,7? All were used and retired in perfect working order. The only issue I had with a Garmin was with a demo 610 that the pin holding the band on broke. That falls into the sh!t happens pile to me.

For that matter, Nike GPS, TomTom, Polar, Timex, Soleus, have all worked fine too.

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Brian