I'm 43 as well and this spring I had a possible similar doctors visit/annual physical. At some point the Doc asked how things were holding up in the sexual activity part of my life, in which I answer "Well, but it's not what it used to be." He relates that to age and possibly the amount of work and training. He asked if I would like him to test my T level, in which I said it wouldn't matter because even though I'm a mop age grouper, I can't take T and compete.

Here is where this story gets a little funny. The nurse comes in while he steps out and we start talking about her buying a new bike. We end up talking about tri bikes and as the Doc walks back in she hands him my phone and shows him a photo of my tri bike with a Dash saddle. The nurse walks out and my Doctor says, "If you sit on that for 5 hours, I think I've found the reason for the slow down, south of your belt line."

Generally docs are not recommending testing for low T or treating for it. Patients are reading stuff on the internet and they come asking to be tested or treated. There probably isn't much money for big pharma in testosterone as it is a generic drug.

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For an actual response, rather than condemnation of your question:

If you don't have any signs of low testosterone, you're good. If you have legitimate hypogonadism, your numbers would be much lower, and you would feel pretty shit... In particular, you would have no sex drive. Like, literally, none.

If you reach that point, with both the clinical signs and laboratory values, treatment is probably justified from a wellness stand point.

There's little evidence that Testosterone has these compromising effects that you are alluding to. But it is a fact that very low testosterone does have direct, and serious, side effects in males (depression, increased risk of stroke, heart attack and heart disease). Not saying he should supplement. Just trying to set some facts straight.

Also, the idea seems prelavant here that he should just accept what it is cause it's always been that way in older males. I would submit nothing could be farther from the truth. A recent study has found that sperm levels have dropped in half in western men between 1973 and 2011. Now this most likely has nothing to do with testosterone. But it's a pretty big red flag that stuff in our environment is seriously affecting us. My personal theory, with some limited research backing, is that falling testosterone is an issue that is just becoming more prevalent in our society. More research will probably reveal decades of falling levels.

This conversation is completely separate from anything to do with competing. It's against the rules to take T and race. That's an entirely different issue.

T levels drop as you get older and that's normal. Heavy endurance training also drops T levels. Based on your numbers it looked worlds higher then mine when I was having major issues. Unless you start noticing big issues don't worry about it. Unless you want to be like those banner ads on some websites that shows a freaking jacked guy with an old mans head on the body.

Why not look on PubMed (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...tosterone+men+review) and read about this stuff. This will provide you with scientific reviews of the benefits and dangers of testosterone levels/supplementation (as there are two sides to this, just as everything else in life). This puts aside ANY issues that people may have with doping (which taking Testosterone would be doing), and focuses on the health issues that you seem to be asking. The most valuable thing that you can do is educate yourself with opinions of experts in the field, and NOT rely on some opinions/anecdote from people who really do not know and/or understand what they are talking about (even though they think they do). This should be standard practice for anyone that is concerned about their own health...Ideally (for a patient), going to a medical doctor should be a collaboration; as you should be the expert on you.

Stephen J

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Free testosterone!? Where do I get mine?

good lord, virtually this entire thread has been a bunch of virtue signalling and catty snark in response to a pretty mundane question. I don't know how some of you are able to type from way up there in on your high horses.

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My doc a few years ago, on his decision, ordered my T level to be checked with blood work. When I went back, he said my T level was low and did I want meds.
I said no way since first, I could no longer race legally, and second, the long term health risks are way worse than whatever low T is supposed to do.

So, it does happen, and my doc is a great guy.

I will be having another annual in 2 months. Will see when I get the blood work if he ordered T testing. If so, will post my results, and see if I can get the past stuff.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Does your doctor look like this:





Or this:

Did you see my reply to you in this thread?

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I would have asked him why he ordered that test amongst others. I had full blood work-up last year after asking my doc to check for low iron, but I wasn't tested for that. I'll have the blood work again in November so I'll be on the lookout to see what tests he asks for this year.

Here is a graph that shows testosterone levels by age, split by date.

Hard to tell without more of a legend for the graph. Does that show T levels falling for similarly aged men from 1987 to 2004?

 "second, the long term health risks are way worse than whatever low T is supposed to do"

I gotta disagree on this one as there is little evidence to support this claim and it goes against common sense. If my T is 700 normally and then falls to 150 (for whatever reason). Are you saying there will be negative health repercussions if I supplement back up to 500?
What a lot of people fail to see is that the vast majority of T research showing negative effects was done on people who supplement from 500 to way over therapeutic levels (think 1,200 or higher for bodybuilders). Yes, that carries negative effects. But little has been documented for supplementing back to age appropriate levels.

This video is a decent spring board for learning more about testosterone, its relation muscle growth, training and how lifestyle can affect it. The bit about overtraining is probably applicable to a fair number of people reading this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoP6NCGb3oM

So, you recover fast, your sex drive is fine, and you're feeling fine. So you're good to go. Your levels are slightly lower than the norm, but well within a standard deviation.
For the record, I had my testosterone tested only once about 3 years ago because I was extremely tired, and didn't recover well, and it was...950ng/dL (free was high too and no, I didn't have testicular cancer). Everything else was normal. I'd prefer slightly lower T, not being tired, and good recovery.
It's notoriously difficult to predict anything with a single data point, for a variety of reasons, in particular, the impact of cortisol, but also standardizing the tests, when the tests are done during the day etc.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/...Difficulties/a/47290

If you want to understand a bit why.

Maybe little evidence, but not no evidence. This trial was halted in 2010 because of too many Really Bad Events vs. placebo.

Kinda hard to do the research to figure out if it's safe when you can't get the study approved.

Taking drugs for something that is not a real issue for 99.9% of folks with "low T", is well, ....

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It's a weird graph, but yes. The deltas between the different colored lines are what it's trying to show. For men age 60, the average Total T dropped from around 500 in 1987-1989 to around 450 in 2002-2004.

Facts please. Where is you data that low T is not an issue for 99.9%

That particular study you noted says this-

"the trial’s eligibility criteria excluded men with severely low testosterone levels, limiting the ability to make inferences about safety in this population. The authors also note that the testosterone doses and serum levels in this trial may be higher than those usually used in clinical practice and in some previous clinical trials"


So they didn't do the study on people with truly low T levels. And they supplemented back up to a level higher than what is clinically recommended. This goes to my point that almost all the research out there showing negative side effects of T supplementation is based on going to levels that bodybuilders would strive for. This has little bearing on what average people are using T for when they supplement to get back to age appropriate levels.

Moreover, they stated this-

"The authors caution that the ability to draw broader conclusions about the safety of testosterone therapy based on these findings is constrained by several factors, including this study’s small size and the fact that the study’s population was older and had higher rates of chronic diseases and mobility limitation than individuals in most other studies"

You wanted evidence, I gave you evidence.

Also your "common sense" theory is a little shaky too. Take a look at the recent event in women's HRT. Different hormones, of course, but turns out the older women supplementing to younger women's hormone levels has all kinds of risks. Sometimes reality doesn't care about "common sense."

Edit: That said this more recent study is cautiously positive, though holding out for more data on stroke, heart attack, etc.

Evidence assumes is has some pertinence to what we are talking about. The study you initially cited clearly had too small a sample size to be relatable and specifically said it was supplementing to T levels ABOVE what is usually called for. The entire rationale behind my post was that these kinds of studies can't be used to determine effect of T on people who are supplementing to to an age appropriate level.