Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero
Quote | Reply
Does a frame manufacture who also manufactures wheels really design engineer them as a package for highest performance? Are they best as a set ?

I guess the question is , Is the interaction between the frame and the wheel something that can be fine tuned aerodynamically?

Are Roval wheels better on the Venge than anywhere else? Are Bontrager wheels best on the Madone?

Is the Madone faster with Bontrager wheels than Enve wheels ? Independently the Enve might have lower drag than the Bontrager , but does the Madone / Bontrager combination win out?

I’m sure there are tons of variables to this, was really just trying to get a feel for the efffect of frame and wheels together as a set. If there is a significant effect , is it being take advantage of by companies that make frames and wheels? Maybe they just treat them as separate design projects.
Quote Reply
Re: Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
7401southwick wrote:
Are Roval wheels better on the Venge than anywhere else? Are Bontrager wheels best on the Madone?

Do you see those same manufacturers coming out with new wheels when new frames are released? If they're designed as a system for best performance, it seems like they should have the similar life/release cycles.
Quote Reply
Re: Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Uh, please don't give the any ideas. Wheels are one of the last remaining bits that aren't proprietary to a frame...

That said I've seen no indication that manufacturers do this. I think it'd be marketed to death if they did since there's such a strong incentive to sell the package deal.

There are some here (Grill?) who claim there's a strong interaction between wheels and frame. I'm pretty skeptical.
Quote Reply
Re: Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Didn't Specialized claim this when they released the new Roval wheels with the Venge Vias a year or two back?
Quote Reply
Re: Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero [cobra_kai] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, I was thinking they might have. But if you go over to the ViAS marketing schtick page, though they talk about the Rovals quite a bit, there's no claim they were designed for the ViAS for vice versa.
Quote Reply
Re: Frame mfg wheels vs after market wheels, aero [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think it usually works the other way around. They start with a wheel and then model the airflow off the wheel. Then it is the downtube or seat tube of the bike that is shaped according to the flow of the particular wheel. This makes sense because you can change shape much easier on the frame than on the wheel.

A good example is one of the iterations of the Felt DA. When The Slipstream team was sponsored by Felt, they switched their wheel sponsor from Zipp to Mavic. I remember an article where Felt were talking about having to revise the DA design to work with the Mavics because there were big (by ProTour standards) differences in the drag of the bike when switching from the Zipps to the Mavics.

My guess is that there probably isn't much more than a couple watts difference in terms of wheel/frame combinations. Now the the Zipp/HED patents have expired, most wheel designs seem to have converged on a similar shape, except the crazy Zipp whale shape.
Quote Reply