#AlanyaWC

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Looks like us men with Kanute and Webb are in 7 man group down ~1:20 to main group of 40 guys on hell lap. Kanute ripped suit so is wearing Webb uniform, not sure if Webb also has extra.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Looks like 26th for Webb.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

From the results, it looks like he was at the back of the main swim pack, so probably just missed the front bike pack - his run split was about 15th fastest, so even he came off the bike in the front pack...

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Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
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"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)

I should add his 2nd group was involved in some type of crash. I don't think Webb was directly involved but caused delay.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Also heard that a crash slowed him but he wasn't involved directly

Did you read what you're replying too?

If running is your strong suit you have the following possibilities:
1) no weakness - you can consistently win- Brownlees, Gomez
2) 1 serviceable weakness- 2 strengths (including run)- you can occasionally win- Mola, Murray, etc.
3) 2 serviceable weaknesses- you can run yourself into the first half of the race- Webb.

It is amazing that Webb has managed to make his swim and bike serviceable in less than one year.
This might be good enough to make Rio for U.S.

To be a podium contender Webb probably needs a second strength.
What would be easiest a to achieve?

My guess is that he has one problem on the swim. And two on the bike.
The swim- we spent a lot of time analyzing his swim.
And many disagreed with me. But I see his 15 year old swim times as being not very fast. (Compared with what I suspect front pack swimmers could do at the same age).
1) He is probably lacking the speed (not endurance) to swim consistently in the front.
Would this be our first priority?
Swimming is not like run sprinting. It is more possible to improve top speed.

Bike (this I know less about)- 1) my guess is that his maximum power is much lower (than the best tri cyclists). His bike fitness and endurance is good. 2) But his bike handling is also bad.
How do you go from the back of the bunch, to the front if you lack high end power and acceleration, and you are a little inexperienced with group tactics?

With Gwen, it seems like she started to consistently win once she started to consistently get out of the water closer to the front.

If we were Webb's coach what would we focus on now?

I think the bike is a multi-sided thing here. Not completely sure not having seen the races but I don't think he's getting dropped by his bike group. He's strong enough to bike with the group. So you could say he seems to be strong enough on the bike. But it's also possible that his biking isn't strong enough from the standpoint that if he improved it further he might be able to run a bit better as well.

The swim should be the #1 priority for now.

Agreed. Especially because he has the most experience as a swimmer. Given his pedigree as a swimmer, it SHOULD take a lot less time for him to get that up to speed than to master the nuances of pack riding. Plus, if he gets his swim back up to speed, he'll be able to "learn at the front," and will be at a big advantage. One big advantage Tommy Zaferes has had is that he ALWAYS makes the front out of the water. So he just has to figure out how to STAY there. Figuring that out is much easier than figuring how to GET there.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

This all seems reasonable.
It is much easier to stay at the front on the bike, then to get there.
How many guys can go from the back of the second bunch, to a safe spot in the first? That would be setting the bar really high.

If we are focussing on the swim what do we do?
I think he might need to be able to swim 100 M in the 57:00 range.
That way he can swim the first 100 m in 1:02 and still be able to stay on swimmer number 8's feet.

Do we try to get in the pool with age group swimmers?
Do we do sprint drills on our own?

"9 swims a week for a year and a half"

Of course that was someone with less swimming background than webb, prolly doesn't need a year and a half.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The problem is that Webb is a mental case that has never known how to race. Ever since he was in high school, he has confused anger for strength. Until he learns to calm down and study real racing, it won't matter how good he gets in the swim and bike, he's going to continue to burn himself up before he gets a chance to finish with anybody fast. It's the story of his life. The only way he will win any races is if the big names don't show up and the race goes out easy across the board. He should be able to replicate the Jorgensen formula, but he won't.

I think the "Gwen Jorgensen strategy" is less viable among the men.
Brownlees and Gomez are as good (or almost as good) at running (for men) as Jorgensen is at running (for women). But Brownlee/Gomez's can also bike very well. And can sometimes conspire/strategize at the front.

Webb deserves credit though.
He has lept the first hurdle .

I agree. The top men are too fast to destroy by anyone as Gwen does with the women.

Webb does deserve credit, but he's not the hero we're hoping for. He is a stepping stone to that though in exposure. Hopefully there are some collegiate athletes seeing him and Gwen and considering this as their Olympic option leaving school.

There is no chance of any guy replicating what GJ has done on the women's side in the men's game. The men and women are just 2 complete different animals. While the men *most* of the time end up coming together on the bike, the amount of energy athletes burn up in the 2nd group to make it to the front group is a ton. You then have to be one of the best elite runners in the sport (I'm talking top 6 runner in the sport, not top 13; usually only the elite of elite runners can help bridge 2nd group and still run away from everyone) to then continue to then outrun the other 45 guys that you come into T2 with. Webb doesn't have that run in him yet, and I certainly don't think he will, so to he should be able to do the GJ formula, shows your ignorance. Webb only needs that run if you are actually considering him as an Olympic medalist, and if anyone seriously thinks that, they don't know ITU racing. However, to make team USA, Webb can be in contention because there really is very few guys that can ride in front pack and then run their way into a top 20 on a consistent basis. Of course Webb hasn't shown he can do that either, but he's still new to this, and he's taking the right steps to atleast put himself in position to see where the chips fall. He's not fallen on his face just yet with this ITU gig.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

You're welcome to retract your "ignorance" comment any time. I agree that nobody can actually run down the front pack men like Gwen does the women (hence why I said that in my second post). By the GJ formula, I mean taking an elite runner and making them competitive. She succeeded in that 2 years ago. That she's gone beyond that shows what potential she had all along that no one could have imagined. Webb has the potential to be competitive (and I only mean second tier competitive), but he won't do that either because he is an actual idiot.

Or maybe because the level of competition to actually being "competitive" is far more developed on the men's side as it is on the women's side. But far easier to just call an athlete like Webb an idiot, then actually understand the real dynamic differences between the 2 sides of the sport.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Yes, that is why I agree with you that you can't run down the front of the men, because it is more developed. That is changing though in the women and will not be the case for much more time.

I call Webb an idiot because he is one and it has nothing to do with triathlon. If anything, his decision to come here was the smartest thing he's done in his life and perhaps shows me that he's finally maturing. Before this happened, the previous 10 years of his running career had been a joke broken occasionally by some lucky races. That's why I call Webb, specifically, an idiot. Not an athlete like Webb, Webb himself.

Again, he's a great athlete, but a horrible racer that can be easily beaten mentally by better racers.

Yes you just seem to suggest he's not going to make it because he's his own worst enemy. I'm trying to suggest that it will be far more because of the level of competition he has to rise up against in a sport that he's still very raw in. As I said, when talking Webb and ITU there are 2 thresholds. The front of the race threshold and the fight for the USA team spots threshold. While both are extremely hard to achieve, it looks to me that if you throw Webb in an ITU race with the other top 10 Americans, I can easily see him finishing top 3-4 spots at the Olympic distance race (which for the men wont be good enough as we will only likely get 2 Olympic spots).

Now if you put him in a small field with limited chances to work with others, he likely will struggle even more, but put him in the 2nd pack of an ITU race that more than likely merges with the 1st pack, and he can then excel likely more than 2/3rd of the top American men right now. But then to take that next step to actually contending is an step that I don't think Webb can take, and it's not because of his mental idiocy as you say. It's simply he's not likely going to be good enough.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Oh, no, I agree completely. I might not have been very clear with differentiating my arguments. ;) Long day...

Webb just isn't going to be "the guy." But hopefully he can help precipitate that in this country with his slightly broader exposure (because running itself isn't even as big as it is in the rest of the world). We all know and follow the sports closely. It's the others that need enlightening.

My ignorance statement also was in regards to the idea that you really can't compare the men and women in ITU and because it works in the women's race, it should automatically work in the men with Webb and his run ability. I just don't think it was a very fair statement to suggest that he should be able to replicate the GJ formula in the men's game. Now I think you made the statement to support your idea that Webb is going to fail because of his mental weakness. Thus why I thought it was a very ignorant statement to make, because the 2 races are so completely different from a development standpoint (even if the T2 train all comes together with 50 men in it). I just do not see ANYONE being able to come to triathlon from a single sport stardom (yes webb had swim background growing up) and winning on the men's side of ITU. While the women are learning to be a lot more aggressive, and actually GJ's dominance is likely going to accelerate the need for that aggressiveness on the swim/bike, it's still night and day between the mens race and womens race.

The one thing I like about Webb from the few interactions I've seen/had is that he's learning every step of the way. You also saw ITU can be a crap shoot. Guy crashes 3 bikes in front of you, and suddenly your race is compromised and of no fault to you. Let's see where he stands next summer as we approach the Olympic Trials (still trying to comprehend where they are going to do that at). I know they are going to have a Rio test event, just not sure how big they'll have it and what the qualifying process will be.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

If I were him, I'd call up Brett Sutton or Darren Smith or Joel Filliol or anyone else that has a proven track record of making guys faster swimmers.

100m time is overrated. Speaking from the direct experience of watching Simon Whitfield go from being an average ITU swimmer to leading out the water at WC in 2008. It's 400m time that matters. Alan's 500SCY time is good enough, if he can get back there.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

The one thing I like about Webb from the few interactions I've seen/had is that he's learning every step of the way. You also saw ITU can be a crap shoot. Guy crashes 3 bikes in front of you, and suddenly your race is compromised and of no fault to you. Let's see where he stands next summer as we approach the Olympic Trials (still trying to comprehend where they are going to do that at). I know they are going to have a Rio test event, just not sure how big they'll have it and what the qualifying process will be.

Brooks,

Well said. I agree.

Now that we are a year in and Webb's NOT been lighting it up an running either the fastest nor onto the podium, now we can settle down and look at the whole package - and it's still impressive in terms of what he's done.

I like Jordan's suggestion - get the swim down so that he can get out with the front pack and then learn to hang in there on the bike with them - nothing like trial by fire.

I agree with you that, it's sometimes/often a roll of the dice - lot's of variable sat play, some key ones beyond your control. It's a bit like bike racing - you need to race a decent amount. EVERY race is NOT going to go to plan or how you want. You increase your chances of postive outcomes by racing more.

Webb is still in the ascendancy here - if he keeps his head, does not get injured, he could impress - even more than he has already.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog