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For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times?
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For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times?

Just trying to add some perspective for which to view the swim threads on ST. At least to me, it seems that the regulars on the swim threads are dominated by really fast swimmers that would be crushing equivalent run times.

I'm aware that most of this is because this is a triathlete forum, so for the (vast) majority here, swimming is not or has never been a long-term extended training focus, but it's still good to be realistic about one's genetic potential.

Just an an example, a WAVA score of 90% requires a 45-year old male to run a sub 16-5k. I dunno about you, but to me, that's fast enough that if you weren't born to run that fast, there's no training that will get you there (or even close, in most cases.)

I'm sure there are similar limitations for swimming, but because of the confounding swimming technique and even swim-hours spent, natural gifts are rarely included in the discussion, yet it's very possible that folks might be misled by thinking they can swim remotely as fast as the fish on this forum, even with maximal-best swim training.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times?

Just trying to add some perspective for which to view the swim threads on ST. At least to me, it seems that the regulars on the swim threads are dominated by really fast swimmers that would be crushing equivalent run times.

I'm aware that most of this is because this is a triathlete forum, so for the (vast) majority here, swimming is not or has never been a long-term extended training focus, but it's still good to be realistic about one's genetic potential.

Just an an example, a WAVA score of 90% requires a 45-year old male to run a sub 16-5k. I dunno about you, but to me, that's fast enough that if you weren't born to run that fast, there's no training that will get you there (or even close, in most cases.)

I'm sure there are similar limitations for swimming, but because of the confounding swimming technique and even swim-hours spent, natural gifts are rarely included in the discussion, yet it's very possible that folks might be misled by thinking they can swim remotely as fast as the fish on this forum, even with maximal-best swim training.

Not answering your first paragraph question but rather your last paragraph, i.e., no doubt there is a huge genetic component to swimming fast at any age. STers like klehner who went 51-low for 100 yd free at age 28/29 after only 2 yrs of training, and mikenultra, who recently went 49.90 for 100 yd free at age 39, are truly 1 in 100,000 at best. Guys like Phelps and Lochte would be masters swimming stars even if they had taken up swimming in their mid-20s. I'm not sure who said it, might've even been you, but most talented runners and cyclists who do not become fast swimmers as adults, prob would not have stuck it out on an AG swim team even if they'd started at age 7, b/c they just lack swim-specific talent. Thus even if a "time machine" existed that allowed them to go back 20 yrs and try to become an excellent swimmer at an early age, they prob still would not stick it out to become the best swimmer they could be b/c they prob would not be winning swim races b/c of said lack of swim talent.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Ericmulk - you and Dev are literally the ONLY ones I've seen on this forum who seem to share my viewpoint, which is exactly as you put it.


And I seriously can't believe that I posted a FISH swimming thread to which the entire squad of fish hasn't popped up to reply to.

For real, this is ST, where if you ask about swim times, you'll get an immediate deluge of like 20 fish saying how they can swim 48 sec 100s and 20 flat Olys to the point that it makes you feel like if you can't do that, there's something wrong with you. Where are all you guys/girls?!

Maybe I should change the thread title to "How fast can you swim a ...."
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Wouldn't it be nice if someone made tables for that like has been done in running?
I don't know of any.
I'm no natural runner, quite slow and maybe not a genetic natural swimmer. I did start very early and many 10000 hours of swimming got me to near sub elite levels. Swam D1 in what might be called mid major and was a role player there.
Do you or do you not want to know some of our times?
At 21 I went 1:47 200 FR SCY and 4:50 500 FR.
At 40 I went 1:54/5:08 on only 5 hours a week.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Ericmulk - you and Dev are literally the ONLY ones I've seen on this forum who seem to share my viewpoint, which is exactly as you put it.
"

Make that 3 of us......
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times?

Just trying to add some perspective for which to view the swim threads on ST. At least to me, it seems that the regulars on the swim threads are dominated by really fast swimmers that would be crushing equivalent run times.

I'm aware that most of this is because this is a triathlete forum, so for the (vast) majority here, swimming is not or has never been a long-term extended training focus, but it's still good to be realistic about one's genetic potential.

Just an an example, a WAVA score of 90% requires a 45-year old male to run a sub 16-5k. I dunno about you, but to me, that's fast enough that if you weren't born to run that fast, there's no training that will get you there (or even close, in most cases.)

I'm sure there are similar limitations for swimming, but because of the confounding swimming technique and even swim-hours spent, natural gifts are rarely included in the discussion, yet it's very possible that folks might be misled by thinking they can swim remotely as fast as the fish on this forum, even with maximal-best swim training.


Perhaps off topic but why doesnt someone take all the data from the FINA masters records and set up a WAVA calculator for swimming......by the way, I think the WAVA for running when used with swimming is pretty close....
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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At my peak many years ago, I was a touch faster than the women's world records in my swim events. So roughly speaking, you could say a mid level D1 swimmer who never made an NCAA cut is as fast as that random unknown guy crossing the finish line with the women's winner of a big time marathon.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
At my peak many years ago, I was a touch faster than the women's world records in my swim events. So roughly speaking, you could say a mid level D1 swimmer who never made an NCAA cut is as fast as that random unknown guy crossing the finish line with the women's winner of a big time marathon.


That's helpful info, thanks.

So when he D1 or equivalent-ex D1 swimmers that post regularly here on ST post their swim times and give us MOPers advice about swimming regarding swim expectations, its literally akin to a 2:40ish female marathoner or 2:20ish male marathoner giving advice about expectations for running.

That really changes the equation. I don't think a 2:20 male marathoner's experiences are going to be remotely similar to a 4hour marathon runners experiences with training and racing, but that's about the scale of what were dealing with when the fish here are giving MOP triathletes swim advice regarding swim pace expectations.

For example,a 2:20 male marathoner will probably run a sub-3 marathon on totally haphazard, random run training of under 35mpw. It's just that easy for them. So when one of these D1 fish says that with no training they can swim a 1:10-1:15/100 because it's 'all technique', it might very likely be less the matter of some amazing technique but more that they are just genetically gifted - they'd probably swi close to that fast even if they used my suboptimal MOPer technique.
Last edited by: lightheir: Mar 21, 17 7:35
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I would say closer to 2:28-2:30 than 2:20. A 2:20 marathon is almost trials, in a sport where the trials is made to have far fewer entries than for swimming. By never making an NCAA cut, you're probably looking at someone who ran 14:40-15:00ish for 5k, when you look at D1 running. Also, crossing the finish line with the winner at a major women's marathon these days is 2:24-2:28 unless it was an absolutely stacked field (ie London).

That said, if we consider a 14:40 5ker giving advice to a bunch of people running over 20, you're pretty much comparing different sports. I've run low 17s and can honestly say that I have very little business following any training advice from the <15:00 runners in my area, let alone the 2:14 marathoner.

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [abrown] [ In reply to ]
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abrown wrote:
I would say closer to 2:28-2:30 than 2:20. A 2:20 marathon is almost trials, in a sport where the trials is made to have far fewer entries than for swimming. By never making an NCAA cut, you're probably looking at someone who ran 14:40-15:00ish for 5k, when you look at D1 running. Also, crossing the finish line with the winner at a major women's marathon these days is 2:24-2:28 unless it was an absolutely stacked field (ie London).

That said, if we consider a 14:40 5ker giving advice to a bunch of people running over 20, you're pretty much comparing different sports. I've run low 17s and can honestly say that I have very little business following any training advice from the <15:00 runners in my area, let alone the 2:14 marathoner.

Totally agree.

Yet this is EXACTLY what we're dealing with when you've got like 10 D1-equivalent fish on this forum who are giving swim advice and expectations to middle-age MOPers like myself, when in reality, us MOPers really have no business even remotely considering emulating what they can achieve with similar training.

Those fish can swim with horrible form, and still EASILY throw down sub 27 HIM swim splits on their genetic gifts alone, if not faster. And yet they keep insisting their ability is almost entirely technique and hard work, when in reality, it's genetics for #1-5. I'm not taking away their 10000+ hours of diehard collegiate and earlier swimming which counts, but let's be real - at that talent level, even if you took out those 10000+ hours, they'd STILL be FFOP in triathlon swimming, and not too far off what they achieve even after all those hours.

For sure, it's not like they drop to 1-2 swims a week and become 1:50/100 dead-MOP swimmers, which should happen if it were indeed nearly all training and hard work as they claim. (That kind of drop however is exactly what happens to me if I drop to 1-2 swims per week - I drop from 1:30-1:40 race pace to 1:50-2:00 race pace for HIM distance as a MOPer.)
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
likely be less the matter of some amazing technique but more that they are just genetically gifted -

I do think that amazing technique is a genetic gift. Not just in swimming but in all sports. And in swimming, like all sports, talent gives rise to a feedback loop. While talent does get perfected over time, but don't kid yourselves Folks that end up doing very well as kids in the pool were almost always the kids who were among the fastest right from the get go.

Aside from making swimming a bit easier, this natural talent has other huge benefits. Starting out with great technique "built in" allows you to train much much more effectively so it pays double dividends. The fast get faster so to speak. Then, there is the psychological effect. Kids with talent win, or at least compete with the winners. This leads to many of them getting obsessed with swimming (works the same in any sport) which just feeds on itself as they keep riding the "talent + the work talent allows + winning" feedback circle up and up.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I swam a 51 second 100 and a 21 second 50 in high school and I can tell you that (for me) required a lot of weight lifting, being 6'3", and an absolutely furious turnover rate and outright psychotic refusal to lose attitude. I'm not sure without the testosterone of being a teenager I could put in that kind of training again. I'm a pretty good short distance runner, getting podium in small local 5ks, but my genetic build is definitely for sprint swimming. Once run distances get long, the muscle mass I put on back in the day to swim so fast (plus all the push ups and pull ups and such from ROTC) damages my run capabilities tremendously. And I just don't have the efficiency gift in running like I had the burn tolerance gift in swimming.

One trick we did that greatly improved swim power and speed was to tie surgical tubing around our waist and the other end around the dive blocks and then try to swim to the other side of the pool. Because of the weight lifting I was doing, I was the only guy on the team that could wrap the cord around the block 4 times and still make it to the other side. Set after set of that is the kind of torture we would put ourselves through to get fast. You know it's been a good workout when you can't use your arms to get out of the pool and have to use the steps... and also get help from a friend to pull you out.

I guess my point is that a lot of runners get disappointed when they can't swim as fast as the fast fishes because the work we put in a while back to get that fast was absolutely insane. People can do it because water is such a forgiving environment. And career runners are at a disadvantage because all the signals that correctly tell you to stop when running because you will injure the F outta yourself is typically the signals in the pool that you're just getting started. When your arms and shoulders and lats get all pumped up and the lactic acid is burning like crazy, you've still got 10 or 20 more intervals of that same thing or worse. And then again later today, and then again tomorrow, twice.

If I tried training like that today again at age 43, my shoulders would probably blow clean off my torso. Instead, what seems to work better when we are older are 20 minute long sets of medium hard and improving form to reduce drag.... and then not worrying about it so much. Short and fast stuff is for the kids. Let them have their fun, it's their turn now. :)


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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I thought this calculator was kind of interesting:

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

It also seems pretty accurate based on my times for Top 10 swims. My rating for my best events are in the high-eighties, which is good enough for a USMS Top 10 but nowhere near spectacular.

I honestly think the whole "I'm not naturally gifted so I'll never be good at swimming" argument is an excuse for a lot of triathletes. I'm not in any way naturally suited for swimming - I'm average height, short torso, long legs, and small feet with zero ankle flexibility. I never swam in college. Yes, I swam growing up, but I swim with people at Masters who didn't, and a number of them are very strong swimmers.

The ones that aren't all have one thing in common: their technique sucks. Some of them swim three or four times a week and never get better. Well, of course not. Swimming isn't running - technique is king. It actually frustrates me to watch them. Why not invest a little time and money in fixing your technique? All the yardage in the world isn't going to help you if you've got horrible crossover and sinking legs.

The swimming part of triathlon is low-hanging fruit because most people aren't great swimmers. You can be FOP without being that "good," especially compared to running (which most people can do well with enough volume). It just requires refinement of technique and a few swims a week.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [kells] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a mop swimmer and I can say that while we have stroke errors, they're nowhere near as bad as you claim.

Again, the talented folks look at slower swimmers and assume it's all technique flaws. It's not.

Put it this way, if I tied one of your hands to your waist so you could only swim with one arm, which obviously destroys your normal technique, you would still swim not too far off your speed which I am assuming is a front of the pack. If it were all technique, you would drop to middle of pack or back of pack the moment I did that.

Furthermore, I can attest to the fact that I took a swim a video class with a high level swim coach from Santa Clara who coaches Olympians. He videoed 13 of us and reviewed them with us in a group class. One of the girls in the class who is swimming a 1: 58 per 100 had one of the best Strokes in the entire group, clearly better than mine, but I was going a full 42 seconds per hundred faster than she was. She should be crushing me if it were all technique.
Last edited by: lightheir: Mar 21, 17 8:43
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:
I swam a 51 second 100 and a 21 second 50 in high school and I can tell you that (for me) required a lot of weight lifting, being 6'3", and an absolutely furious turnover rate and outright psychotic refusal to lose attitude. I'm not sure without the testosterone of being a teenager I could put in that kind of training again. I'm a pretty good short distance runner, getting podium in small local 5ks, but my genetic build is definitely for sprint swimming. Once run distances get long, the muscle mass I put on back in the day to swim so fast (plus all the push ups and pull ups and such from ROTC) damages my run capabilities tremendously. And I just don't have the efficiency gift in running like I had the burn tolerance gift in swimming.

One trick we did that greatly improved swim power and speed was to tie surgical tubing around our waist and the other end around the dive blocks and then try to swim to the other side of the pool. Because of the weight lifting I was doing, I was the only guy on the team that could wrap the cord around the block 4 times and still make it to the other side. Set after set of that is the kind of torture we would put ourselves through to get fast. You know it's been a good workout when you can't use your arms to get out of the pool and have to use the steps... and also get help from a friend to pull you out.

I guess my point is that a lot of runners get disappointed when they can't swim as fast as the fast fishes because the work we put in a while back to get that fast was absolutely insane. People can do it because water is such a forgiving environment. And career runners are at a disadvantage because all the signals that correctly tell you to stop when running because you will injure the F outta yourself is typically the signals in the pool that you're just getting started. When your arms and shoulders and lats get all pumped up and the lactic acid is burning like crazy, you've still got 10 or 20 more intervals of that same thing or worse. And then again later today, and then again tomorrow, twice.

If I tried training like that today again at age 43, my shoulders would probably blow clean off my torso. Instead, what seems to work better when we are older are 20 minute long sets of medium hard and improving form to reduce drag.... and then not worrying about it so much. Short and fast stuff is for the kids. Let them have their fun, it's their turn now. :)

Those were fun. We also used to turn around when we got to the other side and sprint back.

I hate the "talent / genetics" discussions that always come up, because those things are fixed for a given individual. I don't care what your talent level is, the way to improve doesn't really change much regardless of the talent level you have. It's still plain hard work.

Like you, my tolerance for the amount of pain it takes to really get fast has dramatically reduced since I was in my late teens / early 20's.

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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then her technique wasn't actually that good. Parts of it might be excellent, but technique includes application of the power you have.

put another way, I can swim faster doing one arm fly than a lot of people here can swim freestyle. power is by definition lower when swimming with just one arm, so technique MUST be playing a big part.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Mar 21, 17 8:56
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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what's a WAVA?

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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if I tied one of your hands to your waist so you could only swim with one arm, which obviously destroys your normal technique, you would still swim not too far off your speed which I am assuming is a front of the pack. If it were all technique, you would drop to middle of pack or back of pack the moment I did that.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about what the basic "technique" that is possessed by really talented swimmers. It is much more basic than just being able to move your arms in the pattern of a perfect freestyle stroke.

Let's using your hypothetical, (and I don't think a great swimmer could be FOP with one arm but I will grant that a great swimmer could still beat a heck of a lot of triathletes with one arm literally tied up ;- ).

Talented swimmers have the very basic ability to apply high force to water with their hands and forearms and transfer a high percentage of that power into forward speed, both through being able to maintain that power over the distance of the stroke, whatever that may be, and by having a good low drag body position.

That is the basic talent at play. And, that talent does transfer to one armed freestyle, sculling on your back, doing underwater breaststroke to see how many lengths under water you can do, or taking 2 quick underwater dog paddle strokes to get the last seat at the swim up bar. And, yes, it would transfer to a one armed tri swim leg.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Are you mad at all the fish on here for some reason?

I don't know of any fish/D1 swimmers that say its ALL technique (D1 swimmer here). It's a lot of technique but its also a whole lot more of hard work that was done for years and years. Can anyone get to the same level as some of us fish? Absolutely not. And that's the same reason why I never made the Olympic trials or NCAA's (genetics).

lightheir wrote:

Put it this way, if I tied one of your hands to your waist so you could only swim with one arm, which obviously destroys your normal technique, you would still swim not too far off your speed which I am assuming is a front of the pack. If it were all technique, you would drop to middle of pack or back of pack the moment I did that.

I couldn't disagree more with this above statement. I often do 1 arm drills so I'm fully aware how slow I go. I would be swimming a ~35 minute HIM swim if you tied one arm down.

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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So when he D1 or equivalent-ex D1 swimmers that post regularly here on ST post their swim times and give us MOPers advice about swimming regarding swim expectations, its literally akin to a 2:40ish female marathoner or 2:20ish male marathoner giving advice about expectations for running
---

I think this is a really warped way of thinking. There is more than 1 input to the speed equation. Yes, one of the inputs in innate talent. But that's not the end of the story. There's also the crap ton of work. This is where the experienced good guys and gals come in to play. They didn't start off fast. They've done the work. They've made lots of mistakes along the way.They know how to suffer. They've done the drills. They understand the technique. That experience and information sharing is invaluable and shouldn't be discredited simply because they happen to have talent as well.






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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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"I couldn't disagree more with this above statement. I often do 1 arm drills so I'm fully aware how slow I go. I would be swimming a ~35 minute HIM swim if you tied one arm down. "

This is true ^^^

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
STP wrote:
At my peak many years ago, I was a touch faster than the women's world records in my swim events. So roughly speaking, you could say a mid level D1 swimmer who never made an NCAA cut is as fast as that random unknown guy crossing the finish line with the women's winner of a big time marathon.


That's helpful info, thanks.

So when he D1 or equivalent-ex D1 swimmers that post regularly here on ST post their swim times and give us MOPers advice about swimming regarding swim expectations, its literally akin to a 2:40ish female marathoner or 2:20ish male marathoner giving advice about expectations for running.

That really changes the equation. I don't think a 2:20 male marathoner's experiences are going to be remotely similar to a 4hour marathon runners experiences with training and racing, but that's about the scale of what were dealing with when the fish here are giving MOP triathletes swim advice regarding swim pace expectations.

For example,a 2:20 male marathoner will probably run a sub-3 marathon on totally haphazard, random run training of under 35mpw. It's just that easy for them. So when one of these D1 fish says that with no training they can swim a 1:10-1:15/100 because it's 'all technique', it might very likely be less the matter of some amazing technique but more that they are just genetically gifted - they'd probably swi close to that fast even if they used my suboptimal MOPer technique.

I'd also like to add that said fish likely don't have the biomechanical deficiencies of many non-fish (e.g. they don't have the super tight hip flexors, shit shoulder mobility, and occasional kyphotic spine). It's dandy to say it's "all technique" if you're actually physically capable of achieving said technique.

I popped into a Swim Smooth clinic in Clermont last year with nine other local triathletes. Everyone there was running 30-40 miles/week and biking 5-8 hours/week. All of them (myself included) had pretty severe flexibility/mobility problems and in the video analysis (which was done as a group) the relationships between those problems and mechanical deficiencies were quite clear (IMO).

Disclaimer: I often promise photos fully intending to provide them and then get distracted. Sorry in advance :)
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Some of those things can be improved over time, and/or there are adaptations to the stroke you can make.

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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
So when he D1 or equivalent-ex D1 swimmers that post regularly here on ST post their swim times and give us MOPers advice about swimming regarding swim expectations, its literally akin to a 2:40ish female marathoner or 2:20ish male marathoner giving advice about expectations for running
---

I think this is a really warped way of thinking. There is more than 1 input to the speed equation. Yes, one of the inputs in innate talent. But that's not the end of the story. There's also the crap ton of work. This is where the experienced good guys and gals come in to play. They didn't start off fast. They've done the work. They've made lots of mistakes along the way.They know how to suffer. They've done the drills. They understand the technique. That experience and information sharing is invaluable and shouldn't be discredited simply because they happen to have talent as well.

I disagree. Those fish are FAST to begin with. In a lot of cases ,they've work hard on top of that to get hellaciously fast. But by no means were they 'slow responders' to training - else they would have given up long before that D1 collegiate program.

The guys who are running sub 15 5ks were NEVER slow MOPers. NEVER. I know one dad whose kid is now a D1 runner, and his kid literally ran a 16:20 in his first x-country 5k with <2 months of training, and zero run or field sports (like soccer) before that. That's D1 talent, and swimmers are deluding themselves if they think they don't have that kind of swim talent.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
"I couldn't disagree more with this above statement. I often do 1 arm drills so I'm fully aware how slow I go. I would be swimming a ~35 minute HIM swim if you tied one arm down. "

This is true ^^^

Now THAT is a flat-out lie. There is no way in hell that you swim close to 1 flat for distance in a normal freestyle, yet drop to 1:45 pace by going one-armed. No friggin' way you are losing 35-40sec/100 by going to a one-arm freestyle.

This is the type of stuff I'm talking about with the fish giving unrealistic advice/expectations regarding swim ability and progress.
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