First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice?

Apr 19, 15 12:29

Post #1 of 40 (5847 views)

Nice day yesterday, 76 degrees, so I went for my first outdoor ride of the season. Cruising on a 8 foot wide shoulder of a 4 lane road (median separates two sets of two lanes), shoulder has bike symbols painted occasionally, so its intended for bikes. There are occasional businesses, restaurants, etc, on both side of the road, so there are breaks in the median to allow left turn or u-turns. I'm going about 30mph in aero as I flatten out at the bottom of a hill and I see a car making a u-turn in front of me. He appears to be making a full u-turn into the right lane of the road in the same direction that I'm travelling. I sit up to observe and put my hands on the brakes, and at the last minute he widens his u-turn to proceed onto the shoulder that I'm travelling on. He was preparing to turn right into a business up ahead. After the fact he said he never saw me. Anyway, at this point, I was too close to him to adequately break or maneuver and he is now directly in front of me. In hindsight, I should have hit the breaks immediately when he started the u-turn I guess. Anyway, I locked the rear brake while slightly swerving to the right. There was a sharp right turn into a business that allowed me to veer around the car but I then immediately hit a curb perpendicular to my direction, launching and flipping the bike while I flew through the air about 30 feet or so, fortunately landing on relatively soft grass. I don't have a clear memory of the fall, but I seemed to separate pretty cleanly from the bike and I have no major injuries, just soreness in a few areas and a couple of minor abrasions. The bike had a front flat, cracked carbon Reynolds race wheel, bars bent/rotated significantly downward (but maybe not damaged??), and that's all I'm sure of so far. I can put an aluminum Flo 30 on it and swap the brakes pads for now, and maybe just realign the bars if there are no signs of damage. Maybe I'll take the bike to a shop to look it over and make sure everything else looks OK?? Called the cops and they came out and gave me his insurance info but said no police report or involvement since the bike did not hit the vehicle. I have a call/claim in to the guy's insurance company and should hear back from them by Tuesday. Based on my Garmin 510 data, I hit the curb around 20 mph, but not sure how accurate that data is with the satellite overlay. Any thoughts/advice?

This does make me want to have a camera system or something on the front of the bike, as a few things have happened recently where I would have liked to have had video. Had a different issue recently where I wish I had video and the guy's license plate.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 12:40

Post #2 of 40 (5819 views)

Call cops to document accident? Witnesses? Driver stop, offer any assistance?

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 12:47

Post #3 of 40 (5795 views)

cwhyte wrote:

After the fact he said he never saw me

I have heard this so, SO many times and I am always astonished that it is an excuse.

I have no advice specifically other than do your due diligence, hold the other party as accountable as possible given your boundaries, keep a record of everything involving everything related to the incident, get more/better lights, get a camera or two (I have a Rideye and a Fly6 after being hit 3 times in past 5 years due to negligence and "I didn't see you" excuse pandering), and possibly contact a lawyer for advice depending on pushback of individual and/or insurance company.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [Brushman] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 12:51

Post #4 of 40 (5779 views)

Yes, called the cops, but they would not file a report since their was no collision between the bike and car. Sounds weird, but he gave me paperwork with the other guy's name, insurance info, and the cops name/info. No witnesses, but the driver was about 20 years old with his girlfriend as passenger and following another car, his dad, in front of him. They were from out of state and going to a restaurant to visit relatives. My guess is he was paying more attention to following his Dad than anything else, which may also explain why he made the u-turn into the right lane and then immediately turned farther right onto the shoulder in front of me. Small restaurant, Sunday at 6pm, nobody really outside to see it happen. So far, his insurance company seems cooperative from the first call yesterday, but we'll see. I took photos of the location, my bike, and I have a Garmin GPS track that shows me going straight then veering right into the curb.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 12:55

Post #5 of 40 (5761 views)

Sadly, I put on my rear red blinker, but left the front white aerobar light off, partly due to laziness and partly because it was a bright sunny day. I do plan to research camera systems, gopros, etc. I won't ride without the front light again. I hate having another thing to set up and charge, but also hate not having it documented with video. May be an excuse to get a gopro for other uses as well, if that will get the job done.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 12:59

Post #6 of 40 (5748 views)

cwhyte wrote:

I hate having another thing to set up and charge

If I have to choose between that and being subjected to the whims of a negligent 4000 pound object...

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 13:28

Post #7 of 40 (5682 views)

Clam up, don't say another thing online about it, and contact an attorney now. Speaking from experience here.

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Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 13:56

Post #8 of 40 (5612 views)

Too late, he's laid it out there for the insurance company to google......bam "no soup for you"

O wait.....that could never happen.....insurance companies are to dumb to search websites and social media!

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 14:15

Post #9 of 40 (5571 views)

Another advice also...remove your post asap (or edit) because your 'in hindsight ... ' comment could easily be used against you. Either by an attorney or an insurance company.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 14:32

Post #10 of 40 (5521 views)

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ity_Review_3271.html

I've decided that the high visibility stuff actually doesn't look that bad on me. Much better than I look after being bounced off of a hood.

I don't run a front light because I ride almost exclusively in the country so turning cars are more obvious since they can't turn at 60 mph. But I put a brighter flashing rear light on this year.

The best way to survive a crash is to avoid it in the first place. Hope you get satisfaction from the insurance company, not having a collision may give them reason to try to not admit responsibility.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 14:46

Post #11 of 40 (5490 views)

check this out.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/...bicyclists/25935697/

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 15:17

Post #12 of 40 (5430 views)

After the fact he said he never saw me.

It's a default thing that motorist say in almost all incidents (I'm always reluctant to call them accidents, because they rarely are). It releases the motorist from any responsibility. Indeed, many a motorists have got away, with all manor of serious incidents, right on up to killing others, by saying those simple words. "I never saw them" So they keep saying them, over and over and over.

Of course, I don't know what could be a worse indictment of someones driving skill - seeing everything you need to see, is key to being a good and safe driver.

Of course, "I never saw them" is code and an out for for, "I was distracted, doing-X, and NOT focused on driving"

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Last edited by: Fleck: Apr 20, 15 9:18

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [Francois] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 15:44

Post #13 of 40 (5375 views)

Francois wrote:

Another advice also...remove your post asap (or edit) because your 'in hindsight ... ' comment could easily be used against you. Either by an attorney or an insurance company.

I'm not looking for major damages here, just getting the bike back in order, so I'm not that worried about it. I don't think the fact that I could have hit the brakes slightly earlier makes it any less the other guys fault when he made a u-turn directly in front of me crossing all the way over onto the shoulder, which is also a designated bike area. If I had major injuries and there was a potential lawsuit, I'd agree and not be posting about it. Either way, thanks for the advice.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 15:54

Post #14 of 40 (5352 views)

Fleck wrote:

After the fact he said he never saw me.

It's a default thing that motorist say in almost all incidents (I'm always reluctant to call them accidents, because they rarely are). It releases the motorist from any responsibility. Indeed, many a motorists have got away, with all manor of serious incidents, right on up to killing others, by saying those simple words. "I never saw them" So they keep saying them, over and over and over.

Of course, I don't know what could be a worse indictment of someones driving skill - seeing everything you need to see, is key to being a good and safe driver.

Of course, "I never saw them" is code and an out for for, "I was distracted, doing-X, and NOT focused on driving"

To be fair, I think everybody has the occasional driving moment where you did not see somebody. Usually, there's no good reason for it (lack of attention, eating, cell phone, fatigue, daydreaming, etc), but it happens if you drive enough. I know I've had my moments, but fortunately they were near misses rather than "accidents" or "crashes". But, I don't think its impacts responsibility. If you cut somebody off or run into them, not seeing them does not absolve you from responsibility for damages, but some of that depends on honesty, witnesses, etc. I'm not a very litigious person and that part of society bothers me. Some might sue this guy, try to get pain and suffering, fake and injury, etc. Best I can tell, I'm sore, have some aches and bruising, but I just want my bike back to the condition it started it. My chest is pretty sore, guessing it may have impacted my handlebars, which is why they are bent/rotated down so much, but could have been from the landing. I hope to feel fine in a couple of days...which was fortunate for both me and the driver. While the driver said he did not see me, he did not question my description of what happened and he apologized and offered me a ride, which is about all I could reasonably expect at the time. His Dad was apologetic and nice about it as well.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [winchester] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 16:02

Post #15 of 40 (5328 views)

winchester wrote:

check this out.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/...bicyclists/25935697/

While I'll call my situation an "accident", I've experienced intentional harassment while cycling as well, and that's the other reason I'm considering an up front camera. On the same ride, I had an incident with a Harley rider and a pickup truck (2 separate issues) that I might have reported to police if I had a camera and licence plate numbers. It was like redneck day on one road I was on. By the way, I also have a Harley and a pickup truck, so that's not the issue, but when you combine it with certain pathetic behavior and maybe appearance, it fits the redneck stereotype. Combine that with a couple of miles of grooved construction pavement, and it was a pretty lousy first outdoor ride that only lasted 23 miles. Time to find another are for riding.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 16:26

Post #16 of 40 (5278 views)

To be fair, I think everybody has the occasional driving moment where you did not see somebody. Usually, there's no good reason for it (lack of attention, eating, cell phone, fatigue, daydreaming, etc), but it happens if you drive enough.

I believe that most of the time the motorist does in fact not see the cyclist. We are tuned to look for larger vehicles that are in the lane. Bikes are small enough they don't always register. If the sun was behind you (and in their eyes), or you were in shade on a sunny day, it's that much worse.

I realize sometimes it isn't possible to avoid high traffic areas, but we need to ride defensive as hell. Any time a motorist is in a position where they *might* cross your path, assume they will.

Glad you are ok and I hope the insurance company pays your bills without a hassle. Some companies are better than others, but usually they are dicks about it. A lawsuit is the only thing that motivates them.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Apr 19, 15 16:50

Post #17 of 40 (5238 views)

rruff wrote:

To be fair, I think everybody has the occasional driving moment where you did not see somebody. Usually, there's no good reason for it (lack of attention, eating, cell phone, fatigue, daydreaming, etc), but it happens if you drive enough.

I believe that most of the time the motorist does in fact not see the cyclist. We are tuned to look for larger vehicles that are in the lane. Bikes are small enough they don't always register. If the sun was behind you (and in their eyes), or you were in shade on a sunny day, it's that much worse.

I realize sometimes it isn't possible to avoid high traffic areas, but we need to ride defensive as hell. Any time a motorist is in a position where they *might* cross your path, assume they will.

Glad you are ok and I hope the insurance company pays your bills without a hassle. Some companies are better than others, but usually they are dicks about it. A lawsuit is the only thing that motivates them.

Thanks. I owned a motorcycle before I started cycling, and its the same thing there, sometimes cars fail to see you for whatever reason, so yeah, even worse cycling. If the guy would have simply held his u-turn into the right lane of the road or turned left all the way through, I would have been fine, but when he widened out his u-turn onto the shoulder at the last second, I was screwed. Yes, the lesson learned for me is to assume a problem and try to react a little faster to the problem. I might have been on the brakes a second or two earlier if I assumed the worst, which might have made the difference or at least made it a slower crash. I've ridden that road many times and while there is a fair amount of traffic and its 55 mph, the shoulders are huge and there is not a lot of left turn traffic light that, except for lights usually. But, I think I'm going to cross it off my list in the future based on this and the fact that its not that nice or scenic anyway.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 5:55

Post #18 of 40 (4771 views)

I was hit by a car about a month ago in a similar situation and got the "I didn't see you" excuse too - despite me wearing a high vis construction type vest. I was injured enough (side of knee peeled back like an orange, wicked road rash, sprained shoulder) that I decided to let the paramedics take me in to get a proper cleaning and stitching.

In general the other person's insurance company will take you a lot more serious if you get carted off to the hospital whether or not you intend on suing. Even if you want to negotiate a settlement on your own, it creates a paper trail so that you have a leg to stand on when pushing for replacement gear, "pain and suffering", or whatever.

Best of luck on dealing with insurance. If their insurance doesn't pay for your wheel you can explore your home-owner's policy (though I known a few people go that route only to get dropped after the claim was processed).

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 6:17

Post #19 of 40 (4738 views)

My experience is that any car doing a U-turn is about to hit you or cut you off so as soon as you see a U turn start, go on full alert and stop!

Only idiots who are already totally flustered because they are lost or in a major hurry do U turns. So, they ain't looking for bikes . . . .

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [STP] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 6:29

Post #20 of 40 (4711 views)

STP wrote:

My experience is that any car doing a U-turn is about to hit you or cut you off so as soon as you see a U turn start, go on full alert and stop!

Only idiots who are already totally flustered because they are lost or in a major hurry do U turns. So, they ain't looking for bikes . . . .

Generally true, and I'll certainly react more like this in the future. In this case, the guy had to to either a left turn or u-turn because the restaurant he was going to was on the opposite side of the road, so the fact that he was turning made sense. Since he was from out of state, not familiar with the area, and following another vehicle, I'm assuming he was either paying attention to a GPS or the vehicle in front of him, which may explain why he may not have seen me. Not an excuse, just an explanation. If he had seen me, given how close I was, he would have waited for me to pass first.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 7:29

Post #21 of 40 (4628 views)

I have been thinking about accidents and crashes a lot lately and have come to the rather obvious realization that, you aren't going to see them coming and in the case of car drivers, of course they did not see you. These things only happen when things go wrong unexpectedly, someone misses something or, fate just does not leave you a way out.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 7:38

Post #22 of 40 (4606 views)

I had a similar situation recently while riding out in Vegas the day before a race that left me with 0 damage to my bike but 9 stitches and bleeding leg.

While running my Cygolite Metro 400 on daylite flash mode (600 lumen bursts) and wearing a hi-vis jersey.

unfortunately for me, the female driver didn't stop. fortunately, a nice retired couple did stop and the woman was a nurse and helped me get things stopped up enough with supplies from a CVS to wait it out for my local support to come pick me up and bring me to the ER.

moral of the story(s):

even when you take precautions, drivers are still apt to completely ignore your presence and cause you harm. so be safe out there.

FYI: Chainrings can cause some serious damage. it was splayed open pretty bad, and was 3/8" deep. ER tech did a good job of getting it lined up and closed up properly

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [STP] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 7:57

Post #23 of 40 (4565 views)

STP wrote:

I have been thinking about accidents and crashes a lot lately and have come to the rather obvious realization that, you aren't going to see them coming and in the case of car drivers, of course they did not see you. These things only happen when things go wrong unexpectedly, someone misses something or, fate just does not leave you a way out.

Yes and no. Some poeple are better at predicting when more caution is warranted. As such, some people are more likely to be involved in a collision with a car, just as some people are more likely to be involved in a collision while driving.

Of course there are situations where you have no control (hit from behind by a driver texting), but good vigilance, anticipation and 'defennsive driving' can go a long way to avoid crashes. I always ride assuming I'm invisible.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [cwhyte] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 8:10

Post #24 of 40 (4530 views)

I guess I'm glad I live where I live. The idea if riding 30 mph in aerobars on a 4 lane commercial highway is pretty foreign to me. As I'm picturing your description, it seems inherently unsafe. I think I would have been on the brakes as soon as I saw the car turning in my direction.

Re: First bike crash, cut off by car, any advice? [Thom] [ In reply to ]

Apr 20, 15 8:26

Post #25 of 40 (4493 views)

Those were my thoughts. I refuse to ride high traffic count roads and certainly not hammering in aero bars. And I don't hammer downhills in training either. I am amazed at the number of people I see on training rides taking those kind of risks. It only takes one dog, one squirrel, one cat, one of anything and you can be in a bad situation. I am glad the OP survived with minor injuries but please train smart and race hard.

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