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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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No excuse whatsoever to make this right in my mind.
Makes me wonder though...

1) Impressive "body" of work/races. Imagine if he put that travel and entry money to better use...like a coach to help him run better!
2)No running buddies to speak up for him?
3) What the heck kind of dentist is he and what kind of business ethics must he have? I'd bet the local, and National, ADA groups would be interested in this kind of behavior.
4) He's lived the lie so long he probably believes he's a good runner
5) Why wouldn't he feel like crap during his "event" to do the right thing?
6) Does he put up a fight when Dq'd?
7) Does "Mrs Litton" know about this? Or maybe that's part of the whole thing "hey honey, I just broke 3 hours in Boston!"
8) Has anyone followed him from start to finish?(Maybe I better read the whole blogspot)
9) does he have a bumper sticker on his car that reads "marathoner 15.3"
10) If he knows the guys we've dq'd a few times around here for shortcutting races.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [thenicetwin] [ In reply to ]
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Well, it said he was monitored by cyclists in a half mary and he ran a 1:28 so it seems he's a competitive runner, especially for his age. That makes the obvious cheating that much harder to justify or understand. I agree the "outing" is fascinating. Gotta love the Internet!


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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [thenicetwin] [ In reply to ]
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1) Impressive "body" of work/races. Imagine if he put that travel and entry money to better use...like a coach to help him run better!

He'd probably lie to his coach about his training.

2)No running buddies to speak up for him?

Would you speak up for him at this point?

3) What the heck kind of dentist is he and what kind of business ethics must he have? I'd bet the local, and National, ADA groups would be interested in this kind of behavior.

If his charity was fake, then lots of other people (including some prosecutors) might be interested as well.

4) He's lived the lie so long he probably believes he's a good runner

Probably. Apparently he might have run a legit 1:30 half marathon. If so then he is somewhat decent, which makes the whole thing even more pathetic.

5) Why wouldn't he feel like crap during his "event" to do the right thing?

Lord only knows. Why are there axe murderers? (No, I'm not equating the two.)

6) Does he put up a fight when Dq'd?

Apparently not. It seems that he backs down whenever he is confronted, albeit without an admission of cheating.

7) Does "Mrs Litton" know about this? Or maybe that's part of the whole thing "hey honey, I just broke 3 hours in Boston!"

I'd bet on the latter.

8) Has anyone followed him from start to finish?(Maybe I better read the whole blogspot)

Apparently once, yes. See #4.

9) does he have a bumper sticker on his car that reads "marathoner 15.3"

Lol. It looks like many of his 'races' are the full distance or even more, but they are more like "run-bike-run-drive-run-drive-run-bike-run". So at heart he's a multi-sport kind of guy.

10) If he knows the guys we've dq'd a few times around here for shortcutting races.

I think they mostly work alone.


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Michael
Last edited by: Experior: Jan 17, 11 19:34
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Is the dude posting in that thread? or regular letsrun poster? That is too much to read :)
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?

Not sure if this has been answered, but USATF rules for placings in AG or Masters says that times are by gun time only. Chip times are not supposed to count. Mom and Pops backyard 5k might allow it, but its generally not. I could be wrong, but I believe this is accurate.


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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Raul] [ In reply to ]
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Raul wrote:
schroeder wrote:

However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?


Not sure if this has been answered, but USATF rules for placings in AG or Masters says that times are by gun time only. Chip times are not supposed to count. Mom and Pops backyard 5k might allow it, but its generally not. I could be wrong, but I believe this is accurate.

USATF rules say that monetary awards and overall placement has to be by gun time. Everything else (including AG placement) is up to the RD, and often is done by chip time to avoid a clusterf&^*ck at the start line.


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Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:

However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?

The mere fact that there is a large difference doesn't, by itself, speak to whether he cheated -- starting at the back is a legitimate starting 'strategy' (though a silly one if you are going to run fast). It is, however, apparently relevant. One current working theory, supported by photographic evidence, is that he hangs out in 'civilian' clothes and surreptitiously saunters across the timing mats. That would be easy to do at the back. And even in races where he apparently does actually run at the beginning (cutting the course elsewhere), he wouldn't want to be at the front because the front-runners would notice him magically appearing and disappearing throughout the race.


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Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Making up (and winning) a non-existent race is certainly a novel approach.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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I would rather make up a race and come in like 8th or something, that would be cool. There was a young man on this site that got outted a bit last season for pulling shenanigans. Not sure if he's still around or not.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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The young man you're referring to is now a "Mentor" on the Beginner Triathlete Forum. This kind of stuff is both fascinating and disturbing to me.

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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
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Printer86 wrote:
The young man you're referring to is now a "Mentor" on the Beginner Triathlete Forum. This kind of stuff is both fascinating and disturbing to me.

Yeah, I don't understand it but it is fascinating and sickening at the same time. The sad thing for him is he's a pretty good athlete. It's not like he's some BOP schlub.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [smugfit] [ In reply to ]
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how was he able to pull this off for so long?
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [handsomenate] [ In reply to ]
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handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?

because people are morons that give way too much benefit of the doubt.



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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?


because people are morons that give way too much benefit of the doubt.


yeah i guess....i wonder if he will be able to cheat now???
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.

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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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It amazes me how many people use endurance sports purely for attention and what they are willing to do to get that attention. I guess we all do, but it just shows you the lengths people will go through to get noticed.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.

I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [handsomenate] [ In reply to ]
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handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?

He wasn't. He was DQ'd from some races along the way. Then people began to realize a pattern of cheating. (That was harder than it might have been because he sometimes races under a fake name.) Then after several 'false starts' (sorry, couldn't help myself there) on Letsrun (where threads outing him got pulled, not for bad reasons necessarily), a thread was allowed to continue, and people more or less behaved themselves, and with that thread acting essentially as one central 'clearing house' of information, many many dots were connected.

What has come out of that thread is not that he cheated in previous races -- this was known in at least some cases -- but the unbelievable extent of the cheating, and that all of it was being done by one person.


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Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [ In reply to ]
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Who has a DSM to look this up?

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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently our man Kip has done some duathlons in his past. Obviously all past race results are suspect based on the present state of shenanigans.



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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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i think he's(newbz) posted in the LR lately, about photography i think.
letsrun has been killing kip litton for a few months. there were so many threads that the site(the rojo brothers, i think) made one, and one only, thread on him.
some of those guys have spent a lot of time on litton. it's been great to see their build up of facts.



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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Which is why I've raced and won Ironman Denver, Ironman Alaska and Ironman Wyoming!

Never thought about charging people for making it up though...

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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Skibum232] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to start my own timing service then I can give myself a better time. I'm also going to be RD and create a Master's Clydesdale Over 6'3" Division to give myself a fighting chance.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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"Running sucks, just Kip it baby." - Saw this quote over on Let's Run and thought it was funny as hell. Report is that Litton is racing the Cowtown marathon this weekend. Everybody is going to have their eye on him, if ya know what I mean. =)


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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [JohnnyEndurance] [ In reply to ]
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Any updated on Kip Litton? Has he been outed yet?

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