Gotcha. Yeah, I'd be interested on seeing that when you get a chance

---

Matt

I just ordered a 2018 Trek SC. I went project one because from what I could discern, the standard level bike came with the UCI compliant base bar. When you went project one, you got the deeper airfoil non-UCI compliant base bar and the speed fin rear brake cover as opposed to the standard rear brake cover. I found this odd as the fork was not the UCI compliant fork, so the bike would not be UCI compliant anyway. The website also says the standard bike has the alloy seat post. I cannot see if the project one upgrades to the carbon seat post or not.

---

Ryan

You're welcome.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

So with the recent relaxation of the 3:1 ratio, I would bet Trek is trying to dump some of the older UCI legal parts. For example, the speed concepts in the TdF used the deeper fork.

https://www.bicycling.com/...r-de-france/slide/20

---

we live in strange times where narrative has way more impact than utility or truth...
-SteveMc

Funny how this thread completely changed topic ;-)

---

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

I just finished a build using the Di2 6-port junction B from an XTR external bottle bolt mount adapter for the Di2 internal battery instead of the two 4-port junction B wired together option. The 6-port junction B is a small cylinder with the same external diameter as the internal di2 battery and is under an inch long. This build had it tucked away inside a Zipp Vuka Stealth along with a D-Fly unit. I haven't worked on a Gen2 SC so I don't know if you have the space to tuck this away in the top tube.

For this same build I also went with a 2-port RS910 Di2 bar end Junction A wired inline with an extension shifter and coaxed into the back end of a Zipp carbon extension. There might not be an option for the RS910 in the standard SC monobar setup, but with your mono extension adapter setup this configuration could work. It is a tight fit with the Zipp carbon extension I.D. Much easier with the aluminum EVO110. Much cleaner than trying to find a spot for a 3 or 5 port Junction A up front. I like it better than the under the saddle option too.

Hello, Slowtwitchers,

This is Steve Westover. I am the VP of Marketing at Diamondback and want to respond directly to this post today.

First, I want to publicly apologize to Kiley and the rest of the Slowtwitch community to say that we botched this for him. Due to a number of failures on our part within accounting, receiving, and PayPal, we failed to resolve and process this return quickly and to respect the time and effort Kiley put into this bike.

The Andean is purchased through the Custom Studio, which sends it out of our typical returns process. And in this particular case, it was a partial return, which was also unusual. Regardless, it shouldn’t have taken more than 10 days to process, and once we recognized some failures on our part we should have refunded the balance the old-fashioned way, with a check.

Over the course of the last few months, we worked extensively with Kiley to resolve all of the issues he has had with the bike. We sent new forks and stems and talked directly to him and his mechanic to make sure that he was completely satisfied with his Andean. We did this for Kiley, and we will do this for any customer who purchases a Diamondback. Unfortunately, we were not able to completely resolve the issue to his satisfaction.

Once we received the frame, we ran a battery of tests to pinpoint the problem and to see if we could duplicate the issue and discover if it is a widespread problem with the Andean. We identified a lubricant on the headset bearings that contaminated the surfaces on the steerer tube. This had a dramatic negative effect on the breakaway force required to move the stem, which is likely the result of the contamination. We cleaned the entire assembly with alcohol and applied carbon paste, then tested it to our specs and it exceeded standards by over 50%. This is a CPSC and ISO standard that we must comply with and pass. We test and verify our products internally and with a third party lab to assure compliance and safety. We have not had this issue with other Andeans, but as a precaution we have updated our user guides so this does not happen to anyone in the future.

We read, watch, and provide input into the Slowtwitch community and appreciate all the feedback — good, bad, and ugly — and thank you for making our company better. I can tell you because of this interaction we have made some significant changes in how we work with our customers, process returns, and our relationship with PayPal.

Thank you for keeping the triathlon community open and honest.

*Note - that we attempted to reach out to Kiley via phone multiple times today to apologize and confirm the refund along with giving him the opportunity to talk to our engineering team about our findings. We were not able to get him on the phone but we invite Kiley or anyone else interested to contact me directly to talk more about the issues that are being discussed on this thread.

Steve Westover
VP Marketing
swestover@diamondback.com

Confirm the refund?

So this whole debacle started because Kiley and his mechanic fucked up the build ?
The guy has gone through 25 bikes, I'd hate to sell him a bike with the way he talks on forums.

Thanks Steve. Responded to your email and received the voice mail. I appreciate the detail provided thus far and response to this issue. We'll talk tomorrow

Hey, shithead. It signals a hell of a lot of confidence in a product when that product is provided to me for assessment because of how I talk on this forums and because of my experience with bikes and components. And in these assessments, I am not unfair to the provider -- I give them every opportunity to work out the cause and offer a solution -- just as I did for Diamondback. I'm not Publius anymore. I genuinely want these guys to succeed. I SAID THIS. We want more innovation in this space and more firms with resources to deliver us products that enhance our performance and our experience as athletes.

If what Steve says is true, I think it's both fantastic and infuriating -- great if they have discovered the issue that will not afflict current or future customers, but angering in that it was not suggested before or run past the engineering team for assessment. Steve is absolute correct that DB did many things in the attempt to resolve this issue -- they were responsive and helpful, and I mentioned those things in my review. But I tallied $500 in service cost by the only wrench I trust in my 6 million resident city, as well as numerous pictures, dialogue, etc. exchanged. So if I "fucked up the build" somebody "fucked up" in their failure to tell me so.

Back to that confidence in your own product. I have on my review/editorial slate the TriRig Omni, the Premier Tactical, the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate, the 51 Speed Shop front end, and at least one product (and likely more) from Culprit, a company that is innovating in the component space right now. These are all provided to me and offered to me by the manufacturer, and the fact that these offers are made at all should instill confidence in would-be customers. Scared to let me evaluate your product? Big red flag.

Oh, and fuck you too.

It's always amazing to me how quickly you can get a response once you let others know publicly about bad experiences and the potential loss of sales.

I know not everyone here feels the way I do but I LOVE this attitude & your unwavering willingness to stand up for yourself. You are one of the few here that does not hide behind an anonymous username & regardless of that fact you are willing to speak your mind & say what needs to be said. Don't stop being you!

I've been looking forward to your review of the Omni for a while. Any thoughts on when you'll have that out?

If you wonder why I stand up for manufacturers, retailers, race directors here, it's because of the difference between what industry and the consumer are able to say with impunity. Would you have felt good about the manufacturer's response here if it had begun, "hey, shithead!"

I'm Dan. No anonymity.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I wasn't praising how he responded to a bike manufacturer. I edited his long response to a poster who basically said he was full of shit.

i understood what you wrote and the sentiment behind it. just, i've watched for upwards of a year as diamondback, cervelo for its p5x, and any number of companies have gotten shat on and many of those companies have quietly been found to have produced very good products.

in this case, diamondback has been roundly shat on for producing a bike, selling it, dropping the ball on processing a timely refund (which it has acknowledged). prior to dropping the ball, in an attempt to satisfy the customer it did (as i understand it) send out 2 forks, 3 stems, and spent quite a lot of time trying to troubleshoot and fix a problem, which doesn't sound to me indicative of bad customer service.

this was a technical problem that i can't duplicate and that to the best of my knowledge no one else has been able to duplicate. i'm not going to go as far as the person who kiley lost his cool at, because i'm not prepared to dispute kiley's experience. i can only talk about my experience.

that established, one option is that kiley got a faulty bike; another option is that he didn't. i don't know which. just, as a former bike maker who introduced this category of bike you all own, boy do i have stories of consumers and shop mechanics! i say this casting no aspersions on kiley's experience, because it's his experience and i wasn't there.

over the past 5 years i've owned 2 speed concepts, a felt DA, i spent a fair bit of time on a cervelo p5x, i just built, rode and tested a scott plasma premium, and then there's this diamondback in my workshop, and there are some other tri bikes i'm forgetting. they're all great bikes. they all built up great, rode great, handled, started, stopped, adjusted, shifted. there's more breathiness and hyperventilation about the performance of products than is appropriate, because when these products fail to live up to their promise often it's because the products aren't properly used (and sometimes i'm the one who doesn't properly use them). in another thread right now there's a "failure" of a bike; no, it's the "failure" of the aerobar; in fact the user was riding pedestals 15mm too tall with screws 15mm too short. so, another couple of brand reputations are publicly trashed because of user error.

i love consumer reviews here on this forum, but consumer readers need to understand that consumer reviews are written by consumers. i'm not a consumer. i'm a former bike maker, who built his own factory, designed his own bikes, and designed classes of bikes that were paradigm changers. i designed the way you all are fitted to these bikes, via the various methodologies, most of which are offshoots of the math and processes that i built. i'm not going to list all my palmares as a manufacturer, i just write this because for all this i am very aware of my own shortcomings as a reviewer and a mechanic. because of this i am reticent to be critical of a product until i fully understand the function of that product, and if it doesn't work to my satisfaction i want to make double darn sure it's the product's fault and not mine. i think good reviewers must approach the writing of their text with this much humility. if you don't demand this as a reader then you end up no better informed than a voter making his ballot decisions after consuming russian news off facebook.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

+1.

100%
Garbage like this thread could ruin a reputation based on nothing but a poorly put together bike. Sure the customer service wasn't great on the refund, but they've gone above and beyond on everything else and get shat on in this thred.

does laughing = feeling good? Because I'd have definitely laughed if DB's post had started with "hey shithead(s)"

---

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

The ball drop with DB’s CS and the point of Kiley’s post has only in so much to do with the steerer that it was the problem which lead to the CS issue. Blame Kiley and his mechanic for screwing up 3 stems and 2 forks, great. BUT Kiley never came out and criticized the company for not working with him to resolve that failure, regardless if it’s a defect or user error. The concern and reason for the original post was that DB did not honor its word with Kiley and refund his money. Kiley had to go to PayPal, who sided with Kiley, to get his money back. It was only after Kiley posted in this space about the lack of DB’s ability to stick to its word did they try and contact him and resolve the issue.


Again, this issue is about DB’s DROPPING OF THE BALL ON THE REFUND and that tarnish is well deserved. Kiley is not trying to sling shade at DB for the steerer question and went out of his way to suggest that his experience could be an isolated case. The steerer is a moot point, but the refund and how DB handled that part of it is not.

---

My YouTubes

Back to that confidence in your own product. I have on my review/editorial slate the TriRig Omni, the Premier Tactical, the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate, the 51 Speed Shop front end, and at least one product (and likely more) from Culprit, a company that is innovating in the component space right now. These are all provided to me and offered to me by the manufacturer, and the fact that these offers are made at all should instill confidence in would-be customers. Scared to let me evaluate your product? Big red flag.

--------

You mention you have 5 products to reviews? How many previous reviews have you done. I ask because you make the statement that your lack of evaluation status for tri products sends out a big red flag.

And you may have done a tone of reviews that I'm unaware of, just wanted some clarity/background on your statement that it sends a "red flag" if you don't review a company's product.

ETA: and this isn't a knock just that when someone makes that type of declaration, I'm curious how they come to that conclusion.

ETA #2- where is a summary of the reviews you give? Threads on ST? Review website? Internal product type of review?

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This is the thing. That was the point of this thread, and it's pretty much of a straw man to focus on the product issue / to stress the customer service adequacy prior to the return (which I myself stressed in my prior review and on this thread). But if they solved the product issue, I'm glad they solved it. But again, not the point here.

Let me try to clarify. What the poster above suggested was that companies wouldn't even want to sell me a product, and I'm making the point that companies go out of their way -- because of confidence in the product they manufacture -- to offer that product up for me to review. Including companies that my alter ego did everything in his power to tear down!

But to answer your question, I've only done a couple official reviews, and one of them was so gushing that I was called a "shill" for 3T, but I have a bunch in the queue for this offseason. I didn't mean "if you don't provide me your product gratis, it's a big red flag", I mean that if what he says is true, that a company wouldn't even want to sell me a product given how I talk about those products here, then why? What does that say about the product?

I can call people shitheads if I want on this forum because I'm not selling you guys anything and frankly, if you don't like my perspective or my language, you can go get fucked. I don't call my buyers or sellers shitheads in my line of work. Usually. Okay, sometimes I do, but it's rare.

Stan brings a perspective of an industry insider and former bike manufacturer; I bring the perspective of a consumer who has experience with bikes and components and rides the hell out of both. I'm not a mechanic, just a regular guy. And if I made this kind of mistake and this was the result, then that too is instructive. But you should read both and all perspectives in your purchase consideration -- both have their place. Most of you guys are smart and can make up your own mind as to the truth. Put on your big boy pants and assess the information you have available.

There was a failure at Diamondback here -- that is not disputable -- and even if there was no product failure, there was a customer service failure on the back end. I trust that they will learn from this. I look forward to talking to Steve later this morning and moving on from this.

Agree.

In this situation Diamondback was way too trusting and generous and perhaps offered a refund prematurely.